Protect freedom of speech

[Narrock]

Eat at Chick-Fil-A today! Send a message to the hateful and hypocritical left while enjoying a delicious meal and protecting freedom of speech. Since most of you (not all) are either uninformed or misinformed, I'll go ahead and explain the basis for this beloved National historic event... Several days ago, the president of Chick-Fil-A stated on a Christian network that he believes that the definition of marriage should be between a man and a woman. Ever since he made that statement, he's been under constant attack by liberals, gay activist groups, and the liberally-biased and agenda-driven news networks like cnn and msnbc. I guess freedom of speech only applies if you make statements that advance and support leftist ideaology. Anyway, prove that you're not a hypocrite... Eat at Chick-Fil-A today!

[Ganzo]

Eat at Chick-Fil-A today! Send a message to the hateful and hypocritical left while enjoying a delicious meal and protecting freedom of speech. Since most of you (not all) are either uninformed or misinformed, I'll go ahead and explain the basis for this beloved National historic event... Several days ago, the president of Chick-Fil-A stated on a Christian network that he believes that the definition of marriage should be between a man and a woman. Ever since he made that statement, he's been under constant attack by liberals, gay activist groups, and the liberally-biased and agenda-driven news networks like cnn and msnbc. I guess freedom of speech only applies if you make statements that advance and support leftist ideaology. Anyway, prove that you're not a hypocrite... Eat at Chick-Fil-A today!

What's a Chick-Fil-A? And as a religious right wing person, I think I have a right to ask: why the fuck does he care who maries whom?

[Narrock]

Google it. It's a fast food joint getting rave reviews. Oh, and he was on a Christian network and merely stated that he believes in the biblical definition of marriage... You know, how 80% of America feels. There's a nationwide movement to show the left that we don't appreciate their hate, intolerance of other points of view, as well as their blatant hypocrisy.

[Ganzo]

Once again, why does it matter who maries whom?

[Narrock]

Once again, why does it matter who maries whom?

Eh? It matters, plain and simple. You're right wing and religious? I'm baffled by your question. Orthodox Jews are also against gay marriage. Anyway Ganzo, you're missing the point and the bigger picture. The president of Chick-Fil-A (as well as anybody) has every right to state his opinion. The left does not have the right to bash him for his statement, and the way he was treated by the leftist media was utterly repulsive. Get it yet?

[Arlos]

Isn't someone who boycotts Chick-fil-a today exercising their OWN freedom of speech by doing so? Why would you want to stop that from occurring? Wouldn't that be hypocritical, and exactly what you are railing against?

As individuals, people have the right to do whatever they want in protest over the opinions of the Chick-Fil-A president, just like they would if a business owner had been quoted spouting KKK propaganda. In both cases the business owner had the right to say what they said, but I have the right to make my opinion of what he said known publicly as well.

Now, where an ACTUAL argument for freedom of speech and religion could be made, is against those governmental organizations or individuals that are talking about banning the restaurant from cities over the flap, since the freedom of speech clause is SPECIFICALLY there to stop governmental retaliation for speech. So, while I may agree with their sentiments, people like that Alderman in Chicago, or the mayor of Boston need to STFU about it when they are speaking in their official capacities, since what they are doing COULD be construed as breaking the constitutional protections of the 1st amendment.

But private individuals or corporations (After all, corporations are people too, right?? RIGHT???) that wish to do something in protest, like boycott, drop advertising, or drop partnerships (big applause to Henson productions), are very much well within THEIR free speech rights to do anything they wish to in order to object. After all, nowhere is it promised that there is no COST to speaking freely, if what you are saying is objectionable to someone else. If I say something that someone objects to, and they decide to picket a place I own, or to boycott it, they aren't repressing my freedom of speech, they are exercising their OWN freedom of speech.

So, eating at Chick-fil-a today is in no way "protecting free speech", it's merely doing some of your own "speaking" in support of their position. Meanwhile, people opposed are exercising their own rights. I know I certainly won't be eating there, as I utterly disagree with his views, and choose not to patronize establishments run by people I so strongly disagree with. I'm not oppressing his right to speak, he's free to spout his mouth off all he wants, but I can certainly choose not to patronize his establishment as a result of what he said. That's me exercising MY freedom of speech in a non-verbal fashion, by voting with my wallet. (Just like I don't buy gas from companies owned by the Koch Brothers, out of extreme disagreement with their political positions, or from BP, in protest of what they did to the Gulf.)

One small closing note, to forestall the accusation I know is coming: No, I'm not boycotting them because they are a "christian" company. In & Out is also VERY much a Christian company, (hell, they print bible verses on their drinking cups and other packaging, if you know where to look), and I have no problem eating there, as ownership has not made the same sort of bigoted statements that the chick-fil-a guy did. If he does in the future, or did and I find out about it, well, I probably won't go to in & out any more for the same reason I now refuse to eat at chick-fil-a. (not that I have ever eaten there in my life, but hey....)

-Arlos

[Zanchief]

What does this have to do with Free Speech? Someone says something stupid and they should be held accountable. This has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

You comprehension of even the most basic ideas is completely faulty. I'm not sure you understand how anything in the world works. Every utterance from your fingertips makes all those who read it stupider.

[Arlos]

Once again, why does it matter who maries whom?

I agree completely.

To date, not one single person on the anti-gay-marriage side of the fence has given ONE cogent argument explaining how traditional marriage would be destroyed or even harmed if same sex couples were allowed to wed.

What would happen that you're so terrified about?

How would anyone's current marriage be effected?

Why would knowing that 2 men or 2 women could get married in any way effect me, a heterosexual person, should I choose to marry the woman of my choice?


Sure, religious institutions opposed to it shouldn't be forced to perform such ceremonies, they would have to be done in civil services or in faiths that didn't object to same sex unions, but since none of the same sex marriage laws are in any way attempting to force such institutions to perform same sex marriages, this point is largely moot.

So, who is harmed, exactly? Mindia, how, exactly, is your relationship and marriage to your wife negatively impacted in any way if hundreds of miles away from you, say in Monterey, a lesbian couple gets married. How are you harmed?

-Arlos

[Narrock]

The issue went to referendum. The majority of Californians don't want gay marriage in their state. A gay activist judge flipped the bird to the people, and went ahead and legislated from the bench and overruled Cakifornians. That's a separate issue. And no Arlos, there's no hypocrisy in eating at Chick-Fil-A to show America that we support the president of that company and freedom of speech. The left akways demonizes the right for statements they make, but it's ok for the left to constantly spew their hate and vitriol. Thats the hypocrisy.

[Zanchief]

The left akways demonizes the right for statements they make, but it's ok for the left to constantly spew their hate and vitriol. Thats the hypocrisy.

How is that hypocritical. The left says the right is wrong. The right says the left is wrong. This is not hypocricy. This is politics. Again, a complete failure about everything.

[Arlos]

Oh, and he was on a Christian network and merely stated that he believes in the biblical definition of marriage... You know, how 80% of America feels.

Sorry to distract you with facts, but there was actually a poll done yesterday checking on the issue.

The poll was conducted jointly by the Pew’s Forum on Religion and Public Life and its Center for the People and the Press. The new poll was conducted by telephone June 28-July 9 among a random national sample of 2,973 adults, including 774 self-identified Republicans, 995 Democrats and 1,037 independents.

Results among all adults have a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 2.1 percentage points, including 4.1 percent for Republicans, 3.6 percent for Democrats and 3.5 percent for independents.

And what they found is this: (full results here: http://www.pewforum.org/Politics-and-El ... ement.aspx )

Across the entire spectrum of the population: 48 percent in favor of allowing gay marriage and 44 percent opposed.

Among Democrats, that jumps to 65% in favor, with 29% opposed.

Among Independents, 51% are in favor, with 40% opposed.

Among Republicans, it's 24% in favor with 70% opposed.

Note that in NONE of the cases, even the poll of Republicans only, did opposition reach anywhere near 80%. So, given that BOTH democrats AND independents are greater than 50% in favor of gay marriage, and the populace as a whole still has more favoring it than opposing it, I would submit to you that your declaration that your opinion on the matter is "shared by 80% of america" is absolutely and completely incorrect. Hate to be that blunt, but what you are claiming is clearly not at all supported by fact.

-Arlos

[Ganzo]

Once again, why does it matter who maries whom?

Eh? It matters, plain and simple. You're right wing and religious? I'm baffled by your question. Orthodox Jews are also against gay marriage. Anyway Ganzo, you're missing the point and the bigger picture. The president of Chick-Fil-A (as well as anybody) has every right to state his opinion. The left does not have the right to bash him for his statement, and the way he was treated by the leftist media was utterly repulsive. Get it yet?

There is no big picture here, you are making something out of nothing. For some reason many people think that freedom of speech means I can say whatever I want and you have to like it no matter what the message is. Freedom of speech means that I am free to say something stupid and you are free to say that what I said is stupid and take offence at it if you feel the need to do so. The Left is just as free to hate on this guy as he is free to hate on same sex marriage; that's the beauty of freedom.

As far as religious rules go, it has already been summarized by all of the heads of diferent faith's over the course of time in a form of a Golden Rule: don't do shit to others, that you do not want done to you. Simply put, if you don't want other to tell you who you can and can't marry, stay the fuck out of other people business.

[Arlos]

The issue went to referendum. The majority of Californians don't want gay marriage in their state. A gay activist judge flipped the bird to the people, and went ahead and legislated from the bench and overruled Cakifornians. That's a separate issue. And no Arlos, there's no hypocrisy in eating at Chick-Fil-A to show America that we support the president of that company and freedom of speech. The left akways demonizes the right for statements they make, but it's ok for the left to constantly spew their hate and vitriol. Thats the hypocrisy.

You misunderstood what I said. You absolutely have every right to eat there in support of the man if you agree with what he's saying. By all means, I absolutely support your right to do so. Do note, though, that people who consider gay marriage to be a fundamental right view what HE said as "spewing hate and vitriol", which is why they are so upset.

What I said would be hypocritical is you complaining about the people who are protesting him. Just like you have the right to eat there to support his statements, I (or anyone else in a non-governmental capacity) have the right to protest what he said by NOT eating there, picketing the place, publishing op-eds about it, etc. Are the people protesting his statement not ALSO exercising their rights to free speech? Obviously they are, so why are you objecting to them doing so?

Also, what you describe that judge doing is EXACTLY the role of the judicial branch, if a law gets passed that disagrees with the Constitution. I bet right now, if you went to some towns in the deep south, you could go there and take a completely legal vote, and pass a law stating that black people were not allowed to own property in the town. Just find a KKK-dominated enclave in Alabama or somewhere, and I am sure you could get such a law passed. However, such a law is CLEARLY unconstitutional. Yet it was legally voted on by the citizens. Should it be allowed to stand? No, of course it shouldn't. But that's exactly what the federal judge did in the California case. He ruled that the law, despite being legally enacted, went against the constitution, and overturned it. Judges in many places in the country did the same thing to laws that forbid whites and blacks from marrying each other, for exactly the same reason. The laws may have been created with all due process, but that doesn't mean they can contradict what the constitution says. Prop 8 violated the constitution, at least in that judge's ruling. As a result, he overturned it.

-Arlos

[Narrock]

Ganzo, you're still missing the point, so I don't know what else to tell you. Arlos, that's the whole issue is how this man is being demonized by the left for what he said. Rahm Emmanuel (an embarrassment to Jews all over the world) said that he will block Chick-Fil-A from building a store in Chicago for what he said. How intelorant and un-American is that? Omg. Now THAT is the true hate right there.

[Zanchief]

Is everything un-american to you? It's just the same nonsense rhetoric every time. All you get upset about is the lame polarizing news cycles that appears in front of you. You have no opinion of your own aside from what the media tells you to care about.

[Narrock]

Oh and Arlos, thank you for understanding why we're eating at Chick-Fil-A. . I hope you go too simply in defense of freedom of speech.

[Narrock]

Is everything un-american to you? It's just the same nonsense rhetoric every time. All you get upset about is the lame polarizing news cycles that appears in front of you. You have no opinion of your own aside from what the media tells you to care about.

You just can't make this shit up. Wow, Zan... just wow

[Arlos]

Oh and Arlos, thank you for understanding why we're eating at Chick-Fil-A. . I hope you go too simply in defense of freedom of speech.

Nope, I will be boycotting it as an expression of my OWN freedom of speech. I completely disagree with the owner's position, so I am speaking otu in my own way against it. He has the right to say it, I have the right to disagree with it.

-Arlos

[Narrock]

Oh and Arlos, thank you for understanding why we're eating at Chick-Fil-A. . I hope you go too simply in defense of freedom of speech.

Nope, I will be boycotting it as an expression of my OWN freedom of speech. I completely disagree with the owner's position, so I am speaking otu in my own way against it. He has the right to say it, I have the right to disagree with it.

-Arlos

LOL. Fair enough

[Arlos]

Rahm Emanuel (or the mayor of Boston) using the power of their office to prevent new stores from opining over this IS wrong, and is unconstitutional. We have no disagreement there.

However, people on the left castigating the owner of Chick-Fil-A for what he said is completely reasonable. Those people on the left have the absolute right to make their OWN opinions known when they disagree with someone. So what you are claiming is hate and vitriol is actually free speech itself. So why are you protesting it?

-Arlos

[Zanchief]

Is everything un-american to you? It's just the same nonsense rhetoric every time. All you get upset about is the lame polarizing news cycles that appears in front of you. You have no opinion of your own aside from what the media tells you to care about.

You just can't make this shit up. Wow, Zan... just wow

No, you can't make this shit up, as that would require a mind free of complete slavish devotion.

I can make it up, because I'm not a parrot. In this instance I didn't, I made a point for which you have no defense, aside from the usual tire spinning nonsense you spout.

[Narrock]

I'm going in protest over the way this American has been treated and dragged thru the coals simply for stating an opinion. And I'm not protesting the protestors who are FOR gay marriage. The main issue is that he was castigated for exercising his freedom of speech rights. I'll be at the Folsom one in about an hour and a half. Come join the festivities lol

[Narrock]

Is everything un-american to you? It's just the same nonsense rhetoric every time. All you get upset about is the lame polarizing news cycles that appears in front of you. You have no opinion of your own aside from what the media tells you to care about.

You just can't make this shit up. Wow, Zan... just wow

No, you can't make this shit up, as that would require a mind free of complete slavish devotion.

I can make it up, because I'm not a parrot. In this instance I didn't, I made a point for which you have no defense, aside from the usual tire spinning nonsense you spout.

Crawl back in your cave mr clueless.

[Zanchief]

I'm going in protest over the way this American has been treated and dragged thru the coals simply for stating an opinion. And I'm not protesting the protestors who are FOR gay marriage. The main issue is that he was castigated for exercising his freedom of speech rights. I'll be at the Folsom one in about an hour and a half. Come join the festivities lol

Be sure to bring your dixie chicks CDs while your there, Mindia. It really was unfair how those American girls were "dragged thu the coals simply for stating an opinion".

[Narrock]

I'm going in protest over the way this American has been treated and dragged thru the coals simply for stating an opinion. And I'm not protesting the protestors who are FOR gay marriage. The main issue is that he was castigated for exercising his freedom of speech rights. I'll be at the Folsom one in about an hour and a half. Come join the festivities lol

Be sure to bring your dixie chicks CDs while your there, Mindia. It really was unfair how those American girls were "dragged thu the coals simply for stating an opinion".

Way to skirt the issue, but I'm not surprised. And I was never castigating their RIGHT to make retarded statements about President Bush. Oh, and you won't find any CD's of those terrible-voice talentless hacks in MY CD collection.