Help me decide

[Griever]

I've been a bad American and have never really followed politics until now. Even still I don't feel like I have enough information to make a decision on who to vote for. So as it stands I am undecided and I want to ask you guys for help. I want to get the facts on both candidates from other like minded middle class citizens instead of reading an article from a biased left or right winger that I find on Google. I've also tried reading through the various threads here to try to find something to grab onto to help my decision making process and I find it hard to do so with all the biased opinions and mudslinging. So I'm asking you guys to please post some pros and cons of each candidate, facts only, no bias, no opinions and no mudslinging.

I'd even like to ask Arlos to moderate the thread and delete anything that appears biased, inflammatory or non-conductive to helping educate an undecided voter.

I'm sure this is a terrible idea but I'll come out of this either more educated or highly entertained.

[Lyion]

http://2012election.procon.org/

[Gypsiyee]

truthfully? i think your best jumping off point is to go to a site like www.isidewith.com and see how you align against the candidates on your own personal issues.

honestly, I wish there was a way to vote based on how the candidates truthfully align and take all the showmanship and campaigning out of it.

[leah]

what gyps said--go fill out isidewith.com, that'll give you your best answer. (and if you want, share your results here--i'm curious where you land!)

[Ganzo]

I'll save you time. It does not matter both candidates represent same investors so the end result will be the same.

[leah]

hmm. that doesn't seem particularly helpful.

[Ganzo]

Well you can always go here to find out more about Romney

[leah]

ha, i saw that yesterday. pretty clever little piece of marketing. not exactly unbiased, though.

[Jay]

If you really want your vote to make a difference in your quality of life, do research on your LOCAL politics. Get to know your local congressmen and women, your representatives, your mayor, your aldermen and women and get educated on your local bills. Those people will have a larger impact on your day to day life than the president.

As for the presidential race, both isidewith and Lyions pro/cons link seem decently informative and unbiased. I think economically we should start noticing improvement around the turn of the decade between 2016-2020 regardless of who the president is so for me it boils down to which group of people are paying taxes: the middle class or the rich. That idea changes for me based on the times. I think in times of prosperity, tax cuts for the rich can open doors for everyone. I think times like now, the tax cuts absolutely must go to the middle class and the rich have to bear the burden of heavier taxes. Just my opinion. I can't go into it without providing a wall of text.

If you make your decision based on social views, well, Mitt and Paul are scumbags plain and simple. They hate women, gays and old people. Gay marriage is a civil right that gay people don't have. They don't want women to have a choice with their own bodies. They want the elderly to pay for their own health care even post retirement. Lets not forget the lying, smug comments and bullshit photo ops. I don't think President Obama did a great job, but at least I don't think he's a scumbag.

[Griever]

Thanks for your comments Jay. I believe after this election I will definitely start paying closer attention to local politics.

Thank you Gyps and Leah for the isidewith.com link. It took me a long time to complete because it made me want to do research on each question instead of just answering them blindly. That alone opened up my understanding of current politics and stances.

Here were the results: www.isidewith.com/results/162039921

Gary Johnson 82%
Barack Obama 64%
Mitt Romney 62%
American Voters 53%

Libertarian 68%
Republican 52%
Democrat 43%
Green 31%

[10sun]

Then vote for Gary Johnson.

[brinstar]

yep, looks like you have your answer

gary's my second choice!

[Harrison]

I have no faith in the entire election process as long as bribing is legal.

Whoever you elect is going to blow donkeycocks, period.

[Griever]

I'm concerned that voting Gary Johnson would be wasting my vote. We all know it will either be Obama or Romney. I feel I should decide who is the lesser evil and vote that candidate. That way at least my vote would have mattered.

Are there any benefits for voting third party that I'm not picking up on?

[Lyion]

Not really. I'm a huge supporter of third parties, but at the same time the pragmatist in me realizes they are completely worthless. Our political system at the national level requires a huge grass roots organization. Even Ross Perot with his billions was not able to start anything that lasted more than a few months.

As has been mentioned, all politics are local. I'd do more to research your elected officials there. At the Federal level, you are pretty much looking at Coke and Pepsi. At your local level, which more effects your taxes, community, local spending, and possible levies more change can be enacted

I think most of the good changes for both political parties have come from the local organizations. The GOP has become far more libertarian, which is a good thing. The Dems have done far better at national security and at supporting trade than before. The funny thing is if you remove the wedge issues, the two parties are essentially almost identical. Obamacare is essentially a GOP plan. The Medicare reforms the GOP keeps touting are from the Democrats.

I personally vote for candidates. I don't vote party line, and I do most of my due diligence at the state level. The problem at the state level is so much is dependent on local news, and really many regional newspapers make Fox and MSNBC look completely unbiased. One needs to dig deeper to get real information, which is amazing in this age of the Internet.

[Menelvir]

If you concede that voting for a third party candidate would be a wasted vote, I don't see why voting for one of two other choices, only one of whom will win, would be any different. If you vote for x, and y wins, does that mean the vote was wasted, since your choice was not for the winner?

In order for a voter to partake in the act of voting at all, it seems to me that the voter must have a conviction that his/her vote has meaning or efficacy regardless of what the outcome is, since it's fairly obvious that no one vote (at least in a national setting) is going to change the outcome.

[Griever]

There are different degrees of "wasted" depending on your vote.

It's like betting on the Astros when the Cardinals and Tigers are playing the World Series.

[Menelvir]

An apt analogy, since I view the voter/national political process as largely akin to the 'fan-professional sports teams' relationship.

[brinstar]

i am ecstatic to "throw away" my vote to the green party candidate this november, because i believe in her plan for america and i believe she has miles more integrity than Coke or Pepsi could ever even imagine.

in fact, no. i reject the phrase "throw away" used in this way. if you vote for the candidate whose ideals best match your own, you are doing your civic duty as a citizen. period. if every eligible voter took the time to examine each candidate's views and compare those views to their own - and then ACTUALLY VOTED THAT WAY - we'd all be a lot better off.

[Zanchief]

Don't vote for someone because you don't want to throw your vote away. Vote for someone because they actually deserve your vote.

[10sun]

I'm concerned that voting Gary Johnson would be wasting my vote. We all know it will either be Obama or Romney. I feel I should decide who is the lesser evil and vote that candidate. That way at least my vote would have mattered.

Are there any benefits for voting third party that I'm not picking up on?

The only wasted vote is one you don't believe in.

[Narrock]

See the movie 2016: obama's America for the real skinny on this asshole and his anti-American agenda.

[Arlos]

Actually, 2016 is a lot of nonsense. But, to each their own.

-Arlos

[Spazz]

I think the nigga that made that 2016 shit just got busted cheating on his wife or somthing at like a church convention. Does that destroy his cred or is that just for cheating liberals ?

[Narrock]

Actually, 2016 is a lot of nonsense. But, to each their own.

-Arlos

Not one distorted fact in that movie. All DeSouza did was use barawkward's own words against him, and exposed who his mentors were from childhood to thughood. Hey, if you like barawkward, that's your choice, but you cannot dismiss this documentary as "nonsense." That's just ignorant and disingenuous. I bet you didn't even see it.