Gratz Michigan! :)
Moderator: Dictators in Training
Gratz Michigan! :)
24th state to become a right-to-work state. Winners: the hard working people of Michigan who are now free of their union chains. Losers: the fucking shitbag unions. Now 26 states to go...
“The more I study science the more I believe in God.” -- Albert Einstein
Re: Gratz Michigan! :)
Seriously, it's like one step forward two steps back with your country.
Re: Gratz Michigan! :)
Tell me about it 
.
While I do see both sides of this story, forced pay deduction to union vs. union power to apply to corp America, etc. I get it.
I'm against the legislation 100% and agree it is a step back for workers, middle class, etc. Those that don't agree just don't understand.
I'm curious to see how long it takes, it will be very subtle.
60 min breaks for 9 hour shift becomes 30min per 9hour
1 week per 6 months becomes 3 days per 6 months
1-3 sick days into 0 sick days without Dr. documentation
Over time, those that think they understand, will actually see the light. It is now up to corp America to keep their workers interests in mind. This almost always go against the company objectives and bottom line.
One thing I find comical and recurring. Those that are NOT in unions and that agree with this type legislation, view this as a win. These are the jealous, do for me, type folks. What they completely miss is these "me" people just gave "them' more power to give you less, less "me". Yet they can't even comprehend or see it.
Sorry day indeed.
.While I do see both sides of this story, forced pay deduction to union vs. union power to apply to corp America, etc. I get it.
I'm against the legislation 100% and agree it is a step back for workers, middle class, etc. Those that don't agree just don't understand.
I'm curious to see how long it takes, it will be very subtle.
60 min breaks for 9 hour shift becomes 30min per 9hour
1 week per 6 months becomes 3 days per 6 months
1-3 sick days into 0 sick days without Dr. documentation
Over time, those that think they understand, will actually see the light. It is now up to corp America to keep their workers interests in mind. This almost always go against the company objectives and bottom line.
One thing I find comical and recurring. Those that are NOT in unions and that agree with this type legislation, view this as a win. These are the jealous, do for me, type folks. What they completely miss is these "me" people just gave "them' more power to give you less, less "me". Yet they can't even comprehend or see it.
Sorry day indeed.
Re: Gratz Michigan! :)
yep the ruling class are winning because they are dividing the middle class against itself
you've got half-retarded truckdriving tools and fact-allergic restaurant owners thinking that unions are evil, that business owners are saints, and that some people deserve health care while others do not
and you've got the intelligent folks who realize that workers average $5333 less per year in RTW states and that we as a nation are stronger when everyone is healthy and educated and protected from the tyranny of their employers
sadly the middle class will have to keep getting kicked in the dick until the morons in the first group realize what's been happening all along
you've got half-retarded truckdriving tools and fact-allergic restaurant owners thinking that unions are evil, that business owners are saints, and that some people deserve health care while others do not
and you've got the intelligent folks who realize that workers average $5333 less per year in RTW states and that we as a nation are stronger when everyone is healthy and educated and protected from the tyranny of their employers
sadly the middle class will have to keep getting kicked in the dick until the morons in the first group realize what's been happening all along
compost the rich
Re: Gratz Michigan! :)
Of course the devil's advocate side says if you don't like the direction your job is going, go get a different one.
Don't really need a union to tell you what you're worth or set guidelines for you.
Don't really need a union to tell you what you're worth or set guidelines for you.
Re: Gratz Michigan! :)
If worker mobility was such that a worker could change employers at the drop of a hat, unions probably would never have existed in the first place.
If the best response to disgruntlement with your employer was to simply show up at a different place to work tomorrow, employers might be more thoughtful about how they treated their employees.
Some workers might have that luxury -- many do not.
If the best response to disgruntlement with your employer was to simply show up at a different place to work tomorrow, employers might be more thoughtful about how they treated their employees.
Some workers might have that luxury -- many do not.
"It is very simple to be happy, but it is very difficult to be simple." - Rabindranath Tagore
Re: Gratz Michigan! :)
Menelvir wrote:If worker mobility was such that a worker could change employers at the drop of a hat, unions probably would never have existed in the first place.
If the best response to disgruntlement with your employer was to simply show up at a different place to work tomorrow, employers might be more thoughtful about how they treated their employees.
Some workers might have that luxury -- many do not.
Right to work actually protects people from being forced to be union to actually work. The problem is the unions themselves need some sort of protection, especially in this day and age of consolidation and robber baron hedge funds.
We have a ton of laws and regulations, but they are more so designed for big business, lawyers, and union kickbacks than actually helping people out.
What saves a man is to take a step. Then another step.
– C. S. Lewis
– C. S. Lewis
Re: Gratz Michigan! :)
Lets be clear as to what this is REALLY about: Crippling the ability of Democrats to be able to compete, money-wise, in elections.
The GOP has a lot of Big Business in its pocket, and gets huge amounts of funding and campaign contributions as a result. The only real way Democratic groups have been able to compete with that, is because of the support of unions, who have shelled out $$$ to support Democratic candidates, since they tend to be more pro-labor. Cut off Unions' ability to collect dues, and suddenly they lose a huge chunk of their political clout, since they can't pay for ads, and the GOP gets a huge advantage in campaigning.
It's all part of the same effort that gave rise to the voter suppression laws, that claim to be "fraud prevention", but are nothing of the sort. See the Pennsylvania GOP figure who admitted the reason they were passing those laws is to lock up the state for Romney if you need proof. Now, when you add in spurious voter purges like we've seen in Florida, where they claim to be clearing off illegal names, but the lists are something like 75%+ utterly wrong, and would improperly remove tons of real registered voters, most of them African-American, and you can see the writing on the wall.
Finish it off by the way the GOP-controlled state governments are gerrymandering the fuck out of districts to give themselves more seats, and the whole thing comes together.
Basically, the GOP is engaged in a program to make it increasingly difficult for the Democrats to compete in any election that isn't the presidency. They are enshrining into law massive electoral advantages for themselves in the way seats are allocated, and are making it harder and harder for Democratic candidates to compete, by suppressing Democratic voters and their ability to fund campaigns.
-Arlos
The GOP has a lot of Big Business in its pocket, and gets huge amounts of funding and campaign contributions as a result. The only real way Democratic groups have been able to compete with that, is because of the support of unions, who have shelled out $$$ to support Democratic candidates, since they tend to be more pro-labor. Cut off Unions' ability to collect dues, and suddenly they lose a huge chunk of their political clout, since they can't pay for ads, and the GOP gets a huge advantage in campaigning.
It's all part of the same effort that gave rise to the voter suppression laws, that claim to be "fraud prevention", but are nothing of the sort. See the Pennsylvania GOP figure who admitted the reason they were passing those laws is to lock up the state for Romney if you need proof. Now, when you add in spurious voter purges like we've seen in Florida, where they claim to be clearing off illegal names, but the lists are something like 75%+ utterly wrong, and would improperly remove tons of real registered voters, most of them African-American, and you can see the writing on the wall.
Finish it off by the way the GOP-controlled state governments are gerrymandering the fuck out of districts to give themselves more seats, and the whole thing comes together.
Basically, the GOP is engaged in a program to make it increasingly difficult for the Democrats to compete in any election that isn't the presidency. They are enshrining into law massive electoral advantages for themselves in the way seats are allocated, and are making it harder and harder for Democratic candidates to compete, by suppressing Democratic voters and their ability to fund campaigns.
-Arlos
Re: Gratz Michigan! :)
60 min breaks for 9 hour shift becomes 30min per 9hour
1 week per 6 months becomes 3 days per 6 months
1-3 sick days into 0 sick days without Dr. documentation
I get 90 minutes of paid breaks for my 9-10 hour shift. (sometimes it's 8hrs, depends on workload)
I've never got vacation less than a year into any employment anywhere.
I've never seen a place give you zero sick days, or even personal days after accruing a certain number of hours worked for that matter.
Lack of unions in these places I've worked didn't hurt me one tiny bit, except the vacations part, but that doesn't bug me at all anyways. It's always been one year of employment before you get your vacation up here.
1 week of vacation after only 6 months? lol unions...
How do you like this spoiler, motherfucker? -Lyion
Re: Gratz Michigan! :)
I've never been unionized and have not once wished for it. Thankfully Georgia doesn't have a nurse's union.
Instead I've watched my dad lose his job at a privatized electric company as they went under several years ago and was forced to obtain join the IBEW as the privatized companies were becoming few and far between. I watched as the union workers sabotaged his shit as a form of hazing for MONTHS before finally laying off (really mature shit, too; stealing his tools, poking holes in the soda can in his lunch box). I watched as his job ended and he was forced to put his name on a waiting list for the next job and wait for THREE YEARS until the next "long call" came up in his area and he was finally low enough on the list to apply for it (and a "long call" is only guaranteed work for 3 weeks. Anything longer than that is a bonus). He was unable to find work in his skill set on the side for private individuals or risk the wrath of the union. My skilled dad who has been an electrician for 30+ years was forced to take a job as a sky cap at an airport for less than minimum wage (with the theory that they were tipped, which they so rarely are) just to try to bring in a little extra income while he was forced to wait on the union to provide him with his next morsel of work. The long call he finally DID obtain after three years of waiting lasted a whopping 4 weeks, so now his name is back on the bottom of a long, long list again.
Yeah. Unions are fucking awesome. Please tell me more about how they are such good things and essential to today's work force.
Instead I've watched my dad lose his job at a privatized electric company as they went under several years ago and was forced to obtain join the IBEW as the privatized companies were becoming few and far between. I watched as the union workers sabotaged his shit as a form of hazing for MONTHS before finally laying off (really mature shit, too; stealing his tools, poking holes in the soda can in his lunch box). I watched as his job ended and he was forced to put his name on a waiting list for the next job and wait for THREE YEARS until the next "long call" came up in his area and he was finally low enough on the list to apply for it (and a "long call" is only guaranteed work for 3 weeks. Anything longer than that is a bonus). He was unable to find work in his skill set on the side for private individuals or risk the wrath of the union. My skilled dad who has been an electrician for 30+ years was forced to take a job as a sky cap at an airport for less than minimum wage (with the theory that they were tipped, which they so rarely are) just to try to bring in a little extra income while he was forced to wait on the union to provide him with his next morsel of work. The long call he finally DID obtain after three years of waiting lasted a whopping 4 weeks, so now his name is back on the bottom of a long, long list again.
Yeah. Unions are fucking awesome. Please tell me more about how they are such good things and essential to today's work force.
Re: Gratz Michigan! :)
Man, don't get me started on the IBEW. My best friend tells me the type of shit they do and it is absolutely disgusting, considering it is a dangerous job.
Let apprentices climb steel towers knowing they don't have the proper tools and gear, just to make them climb back down and laugh at them...that's cool to do, right?
Let's not get into how little they actually work sometimes, and what they're getting paid for in proportion to that.
Oh it gets dark at 4:30? Still getting paid until 7 while you're at a strip club pissing away hundreds a night. (Who cares, right? You're making $70/hr on storm depending on which state you got sent to.)
Lol unions.
Let apprentices climb steel towers knowing they don't have the proper tools and gear, just to make them climb back down and laugh at them...that's cool to do, right?
Let's not get into how little they actually work sometimes, and what they're getting paid for in proportion to that.
Oh it gets dark at 4:30? Still getting paid until 7 while you're at a strip club pissing away hundreds a night. (Who cares, right? You're making $70/hr on storm depending on which state you got sent to.)
Lol unions.
How do you like this spoiler, motherfucker? -Lyion
Re: Gratz Michigan! :)
The young on this board are destined to repeat the past because they appear incapable to understand it. They wrongfully assume the benefits applied today through decades of fighting will mysteriously remain when the fighters are no longer there.
You should suck a union dick for this, you shallow prick.
Do you get any vacation, suck a union dick you prick, that’s how you got it.
How in the hell could this be, unions, wow who could have thought blind man
No, because they already got you there, and now you want to shit on them, do away with them, and for some stupid fucking reason you think your best friend employer is going to keep these things up. Why the fuck would they do that. Why would they pay you for your 90min lunch, must be fucking nice that the unions got that for you. O yeah, but you think they didn’t, idiot.
Typical package at most employers is 1 week over 6 months (e.g. 10 days a year, typically start after the first year). I never said anything about how long you have to work before that benefit kicks in, I'm saying how did that benefit come to be, toolio.
BTW, I'm white collar bro, white collars will never unionize. I'm to hate them, yet I realize what good they do. I see what they do to protect workers. I also recognize the flaws they have, just like you, just like me, just like every person, just like every group or organization. No "thing" is without flaw.
For every tool out there that says shit like, boo hoo the union shit on shoe and broke my shit. Yeah, whatever, want me to tell you about all the non-union fuck heads I get to deal with. You make it sound like "all unions=bad people". I can promise you 1000 times over that any "problem" or bad experience you've had with unions is NOTHING compared to what the non-union people do.
Like bad people and turf control only happens in union environments, good god you guys live very sheltered lives. Seriously, idiots you are.
Arlos is dead on though. With the Rep/GOP party quickly fading into the sunset under its current makeup. Makes you wonder how the plan they put into motion years ago will come to fruition because the landscape has changed so severely since it began.
Harrison wrote:60 min breaks for 9 hour shift becomes 30min per 9hour
1 week per 6 months becomes 3 days per 6 months
1-3 sick days into 0 sick days without Dr. documentation
I get 90 minutes of paid breaks for my 9-10 hour shift. (sometimes it's 8hrs, depends on workload)
You should suck a union dick for this, you shallow prick.
Harrison wrote:I've never got vacation less than a year into any employment anywhere.
Do you get any vacation, suck a union dick you prick, that’s how you got it.
Harrison wrote:I've never seen a place give you zero sick days, or even personal days after accruing a certain number of hours worked for that matter.
How in the hell could this be, unions, wow who could have thought blind man
Harrison wrote:Lack of unions in these places I've worked didn't hurt me one tiny bit, except the vacations part, but that doesn't bug me at all anyways. It's always been one year of employment before you get your vacation up here.
No, because they already got you there, and now you want to shit on them, do away with them, and for some stupid fucking reason you think your best friend employer is going to keep these things up. Why the fuck would they do that. Why would they pay you for your 90min lunch, must be fucking nice that the unions got that for you. O yeah, but you think they didn’t, idiot.
Harrison wrote:1 week of vacation after only 6 months? lol unions...
Typical package at most employers is 1 week over 6 months (e.g. 10 days a year, typically start after the first year). I never said anything about how long you have to work before that benefit kicks in, I'm saying how did that benefit come to be, toolio.
BTW, I'm white collar bro, white collars will never unionize. I'm to hate them, yet I realize what good they do. I see what they do to protect workers. I also recognize the flaws they have, just like you, just like me, just like every person, just like every group or organization. No "thing" is without flaw.
For every tool out there that says shit like, boo hoo the union shit on shoe and broke my shit. Yeah, whatever, want me to tell you about all the non-union fuck heads I get to deal with. You make it sound like "all unions=bad people". I can promise you 1000 times over that any "problem" or bad experience you've had with unions is NOTHING compared to what the non-union people do.
Like bad people and turf control only happens in union environments, good god you guys live very sheltered lives. Seriously, idiots you are.
Arlos is dead on though. With the Rep/GOP party quickly fading into the sunset under its current makeup. Makes you wonder how the plan they put into motion years ago will come to fruition because the landscape has changed so severely since it began.
Re: Gratz Michigan! :)
ClakarEQ wrote:They wrongfully assume the benefits applied today through decades of fighting will mysteriously remain when the fighters are no longer there.
though i agree with the rest, this is really the key sentence
hey all you mouthbreathing union-haters, answer me this: if unions suddenly disappeared, what do you think would happen to things like...
paid vacation
90 minute lunch breaks
company health insurance plans (including dental & vision)
matched pension/retirement plans
fucking weekends
child labor laws
OSHA and other safety codes
hazard pay
shift differential
paid sick time
paid holiday
holidays OFF for that matter
overtime pay (your individual opinion of the 40-hour work week notwithstanding)
earning more than minimum wage
minimum wage itself
do you think your enshrined "job creator" deities will just continue to offer these things out of the goodness of their big warm hearts?
if you are dumb enough to think so, punch yourself in your bitch mouth. not a single one of those ever would've existed without unions or their support.
compost the rich
Re: Gratz Michigan! :)
It all makes sense now, Clakar's rage comes from him being in a union.
Lol unions
Lol unions
How do you like this spoiler, motherfucker? -Lyion
Re: Gratz Michigan! :)
Apparently you're more stupid than I thought.
I'm not in a union, never have been, I even said so in my post you didn't read.
What do you say now, fool?
My "rage" as you put it comes from futile attempts to fix "stupid"
I'm not in a union, never have been, I even said so in my post you didn't read.
BTW, I'm white collar bro, white collars will never unionize
What do you say now, fool?
My "rage" as you put it comes from futile attempts to fix "stupid"
Last edited by ClakarEQ on Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Gratz Michigan! :)
Never been in a union either. Also, maybe it's just working in high tech, but we get 2 weeks of vacation our first year. Sometimes 3. None of this "work for a year THEN get vacation days" crap. A lot of them also have a "no set amount of sick days" policy too. Their attitude is: "If you're sick, stay the fuck home, maybe do what you can from there. Better to miss 1 guy for a day or two than to have the entire office get whateverinhell it is you have and lose even more productivity." Technically, sure, it's abusable, but you'd get in a ton of shit if you really started to do so.
Anyway, like I said: This move has NOTHING to do with making life better for workers or any such thing. It's all about trying to permanently cripple the ability of Democrats to get elected.
-Arlos
Anyway, like I said: This move has NOTHING to do with making life better for workers or any such thing. It's all about trying to permanently cripple the ability of Democrats to get elected.
-Arlos
Re: Gratz Michigan! :)
FWIW, Arlos, I agree with you, but until the minions are educated at the application layer (OSI model here), what hope do you have to get understanding of the deeper transport or physical layers. Most don't even comprehend beyond the session.
Point is no matter what you say, and who agrees with it, understanding won't be there until it's too late.
I feel like you're asking to fight a war and skip all the battles that make it "war" worthy, if you follow me. This union issue is a battle, once lost as too much stupid exists our country, I don't know where the next battle will be. Perhaps I should consult my crystal ball and see what it looks like when the smoke clears.
Be clear though, I'm 100% with you and posted several similar thoughts years ago.
Point is no matter what you say, and who agrees with it, understanding won't be there until it's too late.
I feel like you're asking to fight a war and skip all the battles that make it "war" worthy, if you follow me. This union issue is a battle, once lost as too much stupid exists our country, I don't know where the next battle will be. Perhaps I should consult my crystal ball and see what it looks like when the smoke clears.
Be clear though, I'm 100% with you and posted several similar thoughts years ago.
Re: Gratz Michigan! :)
I've never been in a union either but my skills are worth $ so I get paid. Unfortunately we need more than network engineers in order to make the world go around so someone has to do the manufacturing, delivering, repairs, building, etc. Those people generally don't have the luxury of working from home, jumping to another job every couple of years, etc. The unions are there for them, not me. I understand that without someone forcing the "job creators" to pay well and treat their employees right, it's just not going to happen. Someone like Finawin who will probably never work in a white collar job, raging against unions is really a joke.
Re: Gratz Michigan! :)
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Last edited by Tikker on Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Gratz Michigan! :)
so just to keep score
the two biggest union-haters here are mindia and finawin
mindia - joined a union, DIDN'T GET FREE STUFF RIGHT AWAY, left union. now hates unions, proud to work non-union, BLAMES GREEDY UNIONS
finawin - complains about shitty benefits at shitty job, refuses to realize that unionization would help him or that his job would be 100x worse if unions had never existed
meanwhile arlos and clakar and toss - who AREN'T in unions - believe they are vital to worker protections and the strength of the middle class
and the canadians are laughing at how fucked up our country is
doesn't take a genius to see where the problems come from
the two biggest union-haters here are mindia and finawin
mindia - joined a union, DIDN'T GET FREE STUFF RIGHT AWAY, left union. now hates unions, proud to work non-union, BLAMES GREEDY UNIONS
finawin - complains about shitty benefits at shitty job, refuses to realize that unionization would help him or that his job would be 100x worse if unions had never existed
meanwhile arlos and clakar and toss - who AREN'T in unions - believe they are vital to worker protections and the strength of the middle class
and the canadians are laughing at how fucked up our country is
doesn't take a genius to see where the problems come from
compost the rich
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Re: Gratz Michigan! :)
Harrison,
Don't you work at Costco?
---
Related humorous link that makes me sad for Michigan:
http://jalopnik.com/5967123/chrysler-ha ... ring-lunch
Don't you work at Costco?
---
Related humorous link that makes me sad for Michigan:
http://jalopnik.com/5967123/chrysler-ha ... ring-lunch
Re: Gratz Michigan! :)
hey all you mouthbreathing union-haters, answer me this: if unions suddenly disappeared, what do you think would happen to things like...
paid vacation
90 minute lunch breaks
company health insurance plans (including dental & vision)
matched pension/retirement plans
fucking weekends
child labor laws
OSHA and other safety codes
hazard pay
shift differential
paid sick time
paid holiday
holidays OFF for that matter
overtime pay (your individual opinion of the 40-hour work week notwithstanding)
earning more than minimum wage
minimum wage itself
Because only workers in a union experience these benefits?
Answer me THIS: If non-unionized workplaces are currently offering these, why WOULD it suddenly stop? The nurse's union is pretty much non-existant in Georgia. I get great benefits and am treated very fairly. I have no union-based alternative to speak of, so by your logic, shouldn't my employer be fucking me over already simply because there's no union to protect me?
Also, unless I overlooked it, I didn't read where anyone had said unions should have never existed. Unions absolutely had a vital role to play. HAD. The unions of today, based on my experience with them, cause more harm than good.
Re: Gratz Michigan! :)
brinstar wrote:so just to keep score
the two biggest union-haters here are mindia and finawin
mindia - joined a union, DIDN'T GET FREE STUFF RIGHT AWAY, left union. now hates unions, proud to work non-union, BLAMES GREEDY UNIONS
finawin - complains about shitty benefits at shitty job, refuses to realize that unionization would help him or that his job would be 100x worse if unions had never existed
meanwhile arlos and clakar and toss - who AREN'T in unions - believe they are vital to worker protections and the strength of the middle class
and the canadians are laughing at how fucked up our country is
doesn't take a genius to see where the problems come from
I don't know why this is so hard for you to grasp.
Unions had a purpose as near as 50-60 years ago and have since lost their necessity to exist. Now? Worthless artificial wage inflation, bullying, nepotism, and corruption.
Never once did anyone here say that they didn't serve a purpose at one point, and were a vital necessity. We don't need them now.
How do you like this spoiler, motherfucker? -Lyion
Re: Gratz Michigan! :)
Maeya wrote:Answer me THIS: If non-unionized workplaces are currently offering these, why WOULD it suddenly stop?
Because they can? Nursing is a field in high demand right now, mostly because people don't want to clean up after old people. It is not a job that requires a great deal of education, so if things changed, and there was an influx if people heading to those jobs and you have no union to bargain on your behalf, I guarantee you will have your pay and benefits slashed accordingly.
If you think union bosses are all corrupt tyrants, that's fine, change the system. But the idea that workers shouldn't be permitted to assemble in order to gain leverage as a group against exploitation is just...well silly...to me at least.
Re: Gratz Michigan! :)
It isn't that people are against allowing for the option of grouping up to defend yourself, it's the fact that they no longer serve that purpose and haven't for quite some time.
We have laws and regulations in every industry against the things unions previously protected you from.
Now they are a corrupt self-serving system that make everything worse, except for the selfish who only see what it does for them. The big picture? Who cares?! I mean the country is doing just fine, economically, right?!
We have laws and regulations in every industry against the things unions previously protected you from.
Now they are a corrupt self-serving system that make everything worse, except for the selfish who only see what it does for them. The big picture? Who cares?! I mean the country is doing just fine, economically, right?!
How do you like this spoiler, motherfucker? -Lyion