Guns, I know, not again, can't help myself

[Spazz]

why not gun down a few cop

Cuz people dont like to get into it with people who shoot back ?

[Harrison]

I don't buy the government plant theories out there.

There's so many easier ways to push for gun control than to slaughter innocent people.

[brinstar]

the conspiracy theory isn't about gun control though, it's about destroying the lives/families of people about to testify against banks

[ClakarEQ]

Yet another murder suicide out the barrel of a gun.

Less guns = less gun crime

I don't care so much about "crime" in general, but the crime associated with guns has to stop. We are seriously a fucked up society to think having guns in our pockets makes us secure. Every measurable stat on gun crime is a smack in your face to show how fucked up this right to guns line of thought is.

[Gypsiyee]

I think lyion is extremely misinformed about guns personally so I dont think he is a good defense.

I may be wrong, but I think as a veteran it's highly unlikely that Lyion is confused and misinformed about guns. Pretty rare that I agree with him on basically anything, but I couldn't have said it better myself.

You care so much for these children, yet you support killing them in the womb. GO FUCK YOURSELF YOU PIECE OF SHIT.

No one, NO ONE "supports" abortion. No one is like hey man, abortion party! Let's all go get hammered, knocked up, then pay a bunch of money to go through a painful procedure and bleed and grieve for weeks, woooo!!!!

A fertilized egg is *not* a child, and until you're ever faced with a situation where that horrendous decision has to be made--which you won't because YOU HAVE A PENIS--you have no leg to stand on.

[ClakarEQ]

Now this: http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12 ... tress?lite

What exactly would he be shooting if guns were not legal or if each round cost 500.00?

[Gypsiyee]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/man-attacks-22-kids-knife-china-school-article-1.1220230

We need to ban knives! Sticks and stones, too, while we're at it!

this article is a pretty terrible comparison and kind of makes the opposition's point for you, so thanks.

A doctor at Guangshan's hospital of traditional Chinese medicine said that seven students had been admitted, but that none were seriously injured.

Pretty sure if I'd much rather be the mother running to her child's side with non-life-threatening injuries than the mother burying her child. Had he done the same with a gun, you can bet the death toll would've been higher than 0.

[Evermore]

gun control will work as well as prohibition or the current drug laws. At least if allowed you can track.


When will people realize the issue isnt the fucking guns?

[Harrison]

The point is people are going to do evil shit, regardless of what laws a bunch of idiots make that infringe on the rights of everyone else.

Limiting magazine capacity does nothing. (I can drop a mag and reload before you even contemplate doing anything about it. Why anyone thinks a 10round capacity is somehow going to stop mass murders is fucking mind boggling. It's a case of legislation being thrown around by idiots who have no idea wtf they're doing, and the people who support them. Anyone who does, obviously has had absolutely zero time with a firearm.)

Limiting the appearance of the gun does nothing. (Idiots calling for a ban on AR-15s, aka the appearance of a weapon. Semi-automatic 12 gauge shotguns are still cool though, HURR DURR)

You want a solution as do we all. Removing MORE rights from ourselves is not the right one. It will solve absolutely nothing.

[Zanchief]

this article is a pretty terrible comparison and kind of makes the opposition's point for you, so thanks.

A doctor at Guangshan's hospital of traditional Chinese medicine said that seven students had been admitted, but that none were seriously injured.

In fairness, they could have all been dead and he was just reading their Chi for all he knows.

[Gypsiyee]

Listen, we can sit here and argue all day about some arbitrary need to retain your rights just because you can, but facts are facts. Keep throwing cars out there, knives, baseball bats, whatever you want.. but one of these things is not like the other. Guns have only one purpose, and that purpose is one of violence.

The vast majority of homicides in the states involve firearms. The rate of homicide in the rootin' tootin' gun-lovin' United States--much like our healthcare system--rivals that of third world countries. This isn't rocket science.

[Harrison]

Until we ban things significantly more deadly, such as cigarettes and pharmaceuticals, this whole argument is a farce anyways.

It's a kneejerk response to evil, which is understandable, but to start stripping EVERYONE of their rights as a response is quite frankly the most idiotic thing that could be done in response.

[Gypsiyee]

Cigarettes are a personal vice, as are phramaceuticals. Unless someone is literally shoving an entire bottle of pills down someone's throat, I can't really see where that's comparable honestly.

If it were up to me, would guns disappear entirely? You bet. But I'm also not so foolish as to think that's practical for the entire country. The right to bear arms is pretty explicit in that its purpose is to keep citizens protected against militia. It was penned by men who took a page from the english bill of rights. The UK has pretty strict gun laws these days even though their right to bear arms existed prior to ours; their firearm homicide rate is drastically--drastically--lower than ours, and no one is freaking out over their rights being taken away. So if we're making the "it's our right" argument.. wouldn't the UK have a better reason to get all crazy about it? But they're all for stricter regulation.. and wouldn't you know.. they're doing a heck of a lot better than us when it comes to violent crime.

All I'm saying is we can tout that "guns aren't the problem" as a hypothetical all we want.. but real, factual data says otherwise. Certainly, those holding the gun are the primary problem.. but without the tool, you greatly reduce the risk of mass tragedy because firearms allow for much more violent and much more permanent damage that could not/would not otherwise be accomplished. We could consider bombs, obviously, but those take a lot more thought, time, and effort than does shooting a gun, and that allows the leeway to reconsider. People, by nature, will always take the easiest and quickest route... and someone who has access to a firearm has the shortest distance between two points.

[ClakarEQ]

gun control will work as well as prohibition or the current drug laws. At least if allowed you can track.


When will people realize the issue isnt the fucking guns?

This is about as far from the truth as possible. People want drugs because people want altered states. People want guns because they are insecure and guns give a false impression of self security.

Less guns = less gun violence. To argue that is a false statement makes you an idiot. Sorry.

Harri, it was nothing do with murders, or anything outside of another "normal person" abusing their rights and using a weapon to fire off 50 plus rounds for the fuck of it. Something they couldn't do if guns were not legal or more strictly controled, costly, etc etc.

[Gypsiyee]

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hi ... index.html

just a little tidbit to add to clakar's post. there's a direct correlation.. so, yes--guns are [a huge part of] the problem.

[Zanchief]

It's a kneejerk response to evil

Can you stop using these phantom terms like evil? This isn't evil, it's just people. Evil implies something wicked at work. This behavior can be linked to a number of real tangible factors, such as mental illness, abuse, and environment. Coping out of the problem by saying “oh that dudes evil, was bound to happen” is just horseshit. There’s no sinister devil in the minds of these people. There’s just human behavior dictated by environment, and like it or not, one of those environmental factors is the proliferation and nauseating promotion of firearms in your society. You want to ignore this because of your gun boner. This is called cognitive dissonance. It’s another trait of humans which can be explained without using words that imply magical nonsense.

[Drem]

Oh look Harrison's being a retard. Surprising

Did you really just drop some kinda rambo shit about being able to reload before we can even coremplate what someone so amazing as you is capable of? Having a gun boner doesnt help your argument. I hope they do get banned, since they're completely useless and serve no purpose in any way. Then i can sit back and relax as full-blown retards like harrison try to argue why cigarettes should be banned but not guns. Hahahahahahah

[Spazz]

I may be wrong, but I think as a veteran it's highly unlikely that Lyion is confused and misinformed about guns.

Being a vet means you know how to operate a weapon it doesnt make his opinion on guns in america any more correct or hold any more weight,

[Spazz]

Something you guys dont really seem to get well maybe harrison feels different than I do but I dont want to ban smokes fast car fatty foods or guns its called freedom and we all have our definition of it.

There are a fuck ton of guns in america and how are you planning on getting them out of circulation ? Gonna go door to door ? Thats pretty scary sending govt agents from house to house .... And what of all the unregistered guns out there how will thye know where to find those ? Im sorry but banning guns does not make me feel safer in the slightest.

Crazy people are going to do crazy people things sadly be it bombs guns knives or who knows what. If you really want to drop murder rates and violence in our country look at what factors into most violence and start there. Most of americas violence is directly related to poverty and prohibition. Those are the true sources of a lot of our murder and violence and until we look into that we are going to keep having problems.


AMerica is not england , were not an island we have more guns floating around than the rest of the world combined and our culture and laws are very different.


Also while we sit here and talk about this I get the impression that most of you are keyboard warriors who have never been involved in a violent situation in your life. When someone tries to stab you or get into your house to attack you come back here and tell me about what I need to be safe. Come on claker brinstar gypsee do go ahead and tell us when the last time someone robbed you or had you outnumbered or threatened you with a weapon ? Go on be real with it, DOnt say well you live in a bad neighborhood and should just up and move ... Give me a straight answer on how you handle a situation like that when it comes up

[Harrison]

I don't want to ban anything, at all.

If you want to slowly kill yourself like a massive idiot and smoke cigarettes, eat like shit, and sit around all day like a lazy slob, go for it.

I don't want the fucking government telling anyone what they can and cannot do with themselves, their money they earned, etc.

That's the biggest problem I have.

When you want to ban guns because of their ability to kill, is when I will compare it to cigarettes. Because only retards think there is a difference between the two, and cigarettes are more deadly by far.

Did you really just drop some kinda rambo shit about being able to reload before we can even coremplate what someone so amazing as you is capable of?

It isn't "rambo shit". It's demonstrating how retarded it is to think that a 10 round mag capacity limit is somehow making the world a safer place. It's a joke. It's literally something pushed for by people who know absolutely nothing about firearms.

[Harrison]

Also while we sit here and talk about this I get the impression that most of you are keyboard warriors who have never been involved in a violent situation in your life. When someone tries to stab you or get into your house to attack you come back here and tell me about what I need to be safe. Come on claker brinstar gypsee do go ahead and tell us when the last time someone robbed you or had you outnumbered or threatened you with a weapon ? Go on be real with it, DOnt say well you live in a bad neighborhood and should just up and move ... Give me a straight answer on how you handle a situation like that when it comes up

This, too. It's easy to talk when you live in Buttfuck Nowhere, 99% safe from any violent crime possibility.

[ClakarEQ]

Spazz, if 5 words went missing, you'd not have a gun at all. 5 words have enabled countless civilian deaths in our nation. 5 little words is all gun owners and enthusiasts have. 5 words that today are abused and taken completely out of context. 5 words that if the founding-fathers could have predicted would have removed from their minds the moment they saw future visions. 5 words that were placed to protect now cause an overabundance of harm and hate in our nation today.

Our founding fathers could not have foreseen the mountains of death and destruction left behind by the 5 words they placed on paper.

doesnt make his opinion on guns in america any more correct or hold any more weight,

That holds true for all of us, you and me alike. That also doesn't mean one person is on the right side while the other on the wrong side. Don't think of the "today", think of tomorrow, think of the future. Think of what it could be like if guns were banned.

It would take time, but how would it be wrong? if all guns were removed over the next 30 years, how is that wrong? Who is it hurting? What type of hurt is it?

Then ask how many could have been saved? How many are saved now? How many will be saved in the future.

You and I see similarities on a lot of issues. I know this one created a chasm. Do you have kids, I don't recall? How old are they? How would you like to see our nation in the future? Do you want a nation of gun toting citizens, or a nation that no longer needs an armed populace?

EDIT
Spazz, I tell you what I'd do. I'd help them pack my shit into their van. I'd give them my wallet. I'd travel with friends, I'd avoid shaddy areas. I'd call the police if I heard a BnE, etc.

No place is void of crime, many places are high crime rates. You live within your means. You are subjected to that environment. No gun will keep you safe from crime, you know this for a fact. Your arguement cuts both ways.

I've been lucky in that any real crime outside of car theft, I've not had to deal with.

Understand the scope of this though, I want gun crime to be near non-existent. This can only be accomplished by removal of guns.
Crime, murder, etc are part of life. Being shot by a gun is nearly unique to this nation, that is the problem.

[Gypsiyee]

Something you guys dont really seem to get well maybe harrison feels different than I do but I dont want to ban smokes fast car fatty foods or guns its called freedom and we all have our definition of it.

There are a fuck ton of guns in america and how are you planning on getting them out of circulation ? Gonna go door to door ? Thats pretty scary sending govt agents from house to house .... And what of all the unregistered guns out there how will thye know where to find those ? Im sorry but banning guns does not make me feel safer in the slightest.

I never, ever said to get rid of all guns. I said that I would be in favor of them all disappearing; I also said that I'm not stupid and know that isn't practical. I don't want to ban fast cars or fatty foods either, but I'm all for taxing the hell out of all of them. We've had this conversation ad nauseum.

Crazy people are going to do crazy people things sadly be it bombs guns knives or who knows what. If you really want to drop murder rates and violence in our country look at what factors into most violence and start there. Most of americas violence is directly related to poverty and prohibition. Those are the true sources of a lot of our murder and violence and until we look into that we are going to keep having problems.

Right. Violence related to poverty and prohibition.. so..... does poverty itself pick up a gun and shoot people? The tool being used is a problem. The tool being used is easy to use. The tool being used causes significantly more damage than other options. The tool being used is too easy to obtain.

AMerica is not england , were not an island we have more guns floating around than the rest of the world combined and our culture and laws are very different.

I think you missed the point of what I"m saying. The second amendment was taken basically directly out of the english bill of rights. Our "culture" that you speak of was part of our emulation of the very country we fled.. it was their culture first. In fact, a lot of our bill of rights pays homage to the english bill of rights.. because that's what our founding fathers were familiar with. but no, totally, America is a unique little snowflake...

....except that we aren't. We have more guns for the same reason we have more fat people: because we can, damnit! Murikah!

Also while we sit here and talk about this I get the impression that most of you are keyboard warriors who have never been involved in a violent situation in your life. When someone tries to stab you or get into your house to attack you come back here and tell me about what I need to be safe. Come on claker brinstar gypsee do go ahead and tell us when the last time someone robbed you or had you outnumbered or threatened you with a weapon ? Go on be real with it, DOnt say well you live in a bad neighborhood and should just up and move ... Give me a straight answer on how you handle a situation like that when it comes up

When I was 19, actually, and I lived in a shitty area. I ran like hell--thankfully, it wasn't a gun I was being threatened with, or I'd probably be dead. What do I do? Try not to get myself in those situations. Like it or not, those situations don't tend to come up when you live in less shitty areas, so that's a perfectly valid point. Detroit enjoys some pretty loose regulation when it comes to guns. How's that working out for you? Oh, right. It's gotten to a point where you need one because it's fucking armageddon out there.

When you want to ban guns because of their ability to kill, is when I will compare it to cigarettes. Because only retards think there is a difference between the two, and cigarettes are more deadly by far.

Okay. So when guns are only capable of causing suicide, then we can talk. Because you comparing the two makes you the retard here (name calling gets you nowhere with me, resorting to calling me a retard when I'm being completely civil with you instantly makes any point you may have moot in my eyes.) They aren't even remotely comparable. Guns do not have just the ABILITY to kill.. that is their SOLE PURPOSE. Heart disease is the leading cause of death in the united states.. guess we should start comparing guns to cheeseburgers too.

[ClakarEQ]

good god, fist-bump gypsi, sorry spazz (2 long posts :p)

[brinstar]

lol at army flunkies boasting about gun reload times

just lol