congress is pussies

[Arlos]

Indeed. Come back to me the next time someone walks into a school and kills 20+ kids in an hour with nothing but a pack of cigarettes. Then we can talk about restricting them like firearms.

[Harrison]

I'm not against background checks at all. The opposite, really. That doesn't mean I enjoy watching civil liberties slowly deteriorate under the guise of "protect the children"

You call it tinfoil hatting simply because you're incapable of looking at anything objectively.

I call it a slippery slope because that's exactly what it is. It's a precursor, and a big one.

Adam Lanza didn't get his gun through a "gun show loophole." So, save the rhetoric for the uninformed.

I brought up cigarettes, because Arlos said no one needs "extended magazine clips" or whatever made-up term he called them. Not a single person needs cigarettes, and they're insane multiples of more deadly, so the false morality can die right there. I didn't bring it up. I responded to it.

[Menelvir]

IMO, a universal background check is a reasonable procedural step for purchasing firearms.

A few months ago, I sold roughly ~$2K worth of guns to a buyer in a face-to-face transaction after I advertised on Armslist.

In Texas (as probably in some other states), there is no check of any kind required in a private transaction.

If such a check were required, and it saved even one innocent life, it'd be worth it.

Having to go through an FFL to complete my transaction would not really have inconvenienced me at all, especially since the transaction happened in the parking lot of a gun store (i.e. an entity which possesses an FFL as a matter of course to conduct their business). It might have taken an extra 10 minutes to complete the transaction had it been necessary to involve the FFL to conduct a background check.

I'm not moved by slippery slope arguments of what further gun restrictions might happen if the law passed. I'm more swayed with what is currently reasonable with respect to gun purchases.

[leah]

IMO, a universal background check is a reasonable procedural step for purchasing firearms.

A few months ago, I sold roughly ~$2K worth of guns to a buyer in a face-to-face transaction after I advertised on Armslist.

In Texas (as probably in some other states), there is no check of any kind required in a private transaction.

If such a check were required, and it saved even one innocent life, it'd be worth it.

Having to go through an FFL to complete my transaction would not really have inconvenienced me at all, especially since the transaction happened in the parking lot of a gun store (i.e. an entity which possesses an FFL as a matter of course to conduct their business). It might have taken an extra 10 minutes to complete the transaction had it been necessary to involve the FFL to conduct a background check.

I'm not moved by slippery slope arguments of what further gun restrictions might happen if the law passed. I'm more swayed with what is currently reasonable with respect to gun purchases.

this this thisitty this.

honestly i feel like if you're a law-abiding citizen without any skeletons in your closet, you have nothing to fear from a background check except for extra time in your gun-buying transaction. what is the big fucking deal? i just don't get it. what the hell is wrong with requiring a background check before allowing someone to buy potentially dangerous firearms?? if it saves even one person, isn't it worth the inconvenience??

[brinstar]

I'm not against background checks at all. The opposite, really.

then shut your bitch mouth, because welcome to the 91%

[Drem]

Even if we did ban guns, people would find another way to kill a lot of other people. It's an inevitable part of our existence

It's pretty naive to think that making guns not available at walmart or gun shows will stop mass shootings or somehow circumvent the black market or armslist

I'm so sick of this topic, but that's my current 2c

[Kaemon]

Arlos its internet talk but if you said that face to face with me youd prolly need to pick up your teeth. Go fuck yourself go fuck your mom go fuck your moms mamma. Im not responsible for child killing and dont you dare try to tie that to me because I disagree with you you piece of shit

My God, I laughed so hard.

[Lyion]

There are what, 100 million guns in circulation? Gun control laws are meaningless unless you change the wild west culture. Plus, ya know, if I lived in Spazzburg, I sure as fuck would want easy access to a firearm.

I think the biggest argument against an extended background check would be the girl who really needs to get a gun to prevent herself from being hacked up by her psyco ex.I can think of a lot of alternatives, personally, but it is a strong argument.

I'm against the second amendment in it's entirety. I think it should be repealed and replaced with 'you can have a hunting gun locked in a centralized location that requires a background check to access and even use'. Thats more my pipe dream of a day where 4 year olds don't kill their siblings and wealthy young people with their entire lives ahead of them don't end up dead or in jail for life for 30 seconds of anger.

[Spazz]

Should be allowed to carry an ar with a drum mag at all times in spazzburg. Weathers gettin nice its gonna be crazy time soon. Whores on the corners and junkies scurrying about like dave chappelle describes them.

Changing why people are this way in the ghettos is a lot bigger issue to me than the guns. Its like a hydra sometimes for every scumbag that gets arrested it seems 2 more that are younger and more ignorant take there place. Weapons dont scare me at all but people really freak me out. I dont want to be limited on what I can possess because violence is a very real threat and the more rounds I have the ability to fire the better I feel about the situation. Im aware that even then I can still die but I would rather at least attempt not to get straight killed than be at anyones mercy. If your dealing with multiple problems I would much rather 30 rounds than 10 or 5. If im trying to drop a boar I prolly dont want a 30 round mag and a short barrel but if im in the crib with 4 dudes trying to get in that is exactly the kind of weapon i want.

Arlos im not worried about fighting the tyranical government or because I want one

Lyion im not interested in a scoped large cal rifle that is meant for long range and large game.

Im interested in guns that can stop multiple human attackers. That is a realistic threat I face/have faced so I want a gun that is good for that. I dont want it to be auto I dont want to miss even more with an adrenaline flood. I dont need it to be long Cornering is a concern. I want something high capacity so that if I have to grab it im ready for some serious shit without fishing for magazines in the dark. I want something with a quick scoping stock so that if my girl is home alone she can defend herself with the best means possible, and I want something with low recoil and the ability for quick follow up shots. That is why I want to be allowed to own an assault rifle ARLOS. Not cuz IWANT IT but because it is the best possible weapon for dealing with almost any situation. I dont want to have to defend myself from 2 dudes with god knows what modern weapons on god knows what substance with a god damned revolver and a pump gun.

Dont get me wrong im not die hard I would rather smoke weed and play skyrim all damn day but the only thing I want less than to hurt anyone is to have my loved ones or myself get hurt.

You can rob me dis me and do whatever you want but you try to hurt my friends my family or my dogs and its on.



I hate this god damned issue. I wish we could just ban fuckin crazy people

[Trielelvan]

If we ban all the crazy people, the human race would suddenly find itself on the endangered species list, though how that would be a bad thing escapes me most days..

[Tuggan]

If we ban all the crazy people, the human race would suddenly find itself on the endangered species list, though how that would be a bad thing escapes me most days..

what

[Arlos]

Jon Stewart nailed it, again.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episod ... k-mazzetti

The guy in the John Oliver segment could be a clone of some of the people here.

-Arlos

[Spazz]

For the billionth time now Totally different culture, Island, better social safety net, different laws , next country over isnt a narco state, Whole society not based off war.....

You know why no one wants to pass gun control laws ? Because people like you are extremists. We are just 2 dudes on the internet but is congress not the same thing. Buncha guys talking figuring out what to do ? Next time a kid gets shot bloods on your hands bro because you and Feinstein are loons who are too out there to even try to talk to . If you and I were congressmen nothing would get done because I know youd never stop.

Also people arent crazy to worry about the give an inch take a mile thing. Have you ever talked to you ? Have you ever watched some of these political cartoon characters talk about guns on the tele? I lot of you have no lcue what the fuck your talking about but insist your right and everyone else is an idiot.


Ill ask you the same shit I always ask you. Have you ever been in an armed conflict with anyone ? If the answer is no than how the fuck do you know what your talking about when it comes to what is an isnt needed . Why do you think that whenever the police shoot someone so many rounds are fired ? After years of trial and error we as humans have discovered that in times of extreme stress everything is a blur and it isnt uncommon to miss even with quite a bit of traning and practice. Shooting at some thing attacking you is a lot different than shooting at paper at the range.

Ill repeat myself again. I think background checks are a good idea but I dont think they will do a whole lot to limit violence in our country.

[brinstar]

banning murder doesn't stop murder, so why ban murder at all

[Zanchief]

It just stops innocent people from murdering.

[Arlos]

Oh please. You're all for stopping a vote today on something you DO support because you're afraid of what might get proposed later on if that does pass? What, do you think you wouldn't get the chance to vote against THAT measure when it comes up? If you think people will "eventually go 'too far'" with gun control, why not stop the crap you consider too far, rather than insist we do nothing?

Now, care to tell me why you're against the idea of a national gun registry? Please note that if you put forth the paranoid delusion of, "The gubbermint will use it to come to our houses and take our gunz!!!!" as a reason, then I will laugh at you. Loudly. Derisively. Who, exactly, are these shadowy "government" storm troopers that will come raid your house in the middle of the night to confiscate your beloved replacement phallus? The military? As we've seen in all the stuff supporting our troops, these people are your friends, neighbors, etc. You think they'd obey that order? Think the Police would? Who then? Do you actually think "The Clone Wars" is a documentary, and the government has a secret army of mindless androids that will follow any order, no matter how crazed?

So why would I LIKE a national gun registry? Because it really WOULD stop criminals from easily being able to get their hands on guns. Who is going to engage in illegal gun sales if they know that a firearm used in a crime can be traced right back to them? Obviously the information wouldn't be available publicly, any more than the government publishes your tax returns online. Seriously, given the huge wrench it would throw into the illegal gun trade, why WOULDN'T you support it, barring delusional anti-government paranoia?

As for Australia, they're not that different from us at all, actually. Did you know they had their own wild west period, with bank heists, gunfights, outlaw gangs on horseback, etc? Look up Ned Kelly sometime. You want to talk narco state, they have the entire goddamn golden triangle just to the north of them. I'll grant you that they have a much better safety net than we do, but I think by now you should remember me arguing once or twice that we should be getting a better safety net HERE, too, yes? They play the same video games we do, watch the same movies, etc. If ANYWHERE in the world is America 2.0, it's Australia. HARDLY "Planet X" like that tool in the video referred to them as. They're proof gun control works. You want to ignore actual real world evidence, I don't know what to tell you, other than that your new nickname shall be "Mr. Ostrich."

-Arlos

[Spazz]

My only problem with a registry is if it is available to the public but I dont speak for the entire gun crowd on that issue. I dont want criminals being able to make a home break in list while people are at work. I dont care if the government knows im packing but I dont you to be able to look that shit up. Also dont tell me the info wont get out publicly when some asshole in new york i think published gun owners addresses. If the registry is just for tracking gun sales an audits of sellers its alright but if its like the sex offender data base and you can just look it up that isnt ok at all.

Arlos your really a cocksucker. Its not proof it works its an insland that DOESNT SHARE A BORDER with the worlds narco state. Doesnt have a drug war like we do and has a safety net. Those things make for a different scenario. ALso as I have said to you I do not want to disarmed.

Im not sticking my head in the sand so the ostrich thing is pretty stupid. I dont want to live the same lifestyle as you do arlos. I want to be left alone by both extreme leftists and extreme right wingers.

I do find a registry and background checks to be good ideas if you were a senator and wanted that passed how would you compromise to get it ? Im not a right wing gun nut like you might think im still a liberal I just see the issue from a different side than you do. Theres a lot of things I would be willing to do, there are only afew that I have to say no to. . Gun ban , mag restrictions and trying to get rid of concealed weapons are the 3 absolutes in my world. Everything else is debatable. Im also not a member of the nra as I find them to be annoying and agree that they have an agenda besides supporting gun owners.


Im never going to give up my gun rights I have seen to many things that make me distrust people. That doesnt make me an ostrich it just means that I see things very different than you do.

I also see that you still havent addressed what I said because it doesnt fit your narrative about why someone would want to own a weapon like that. Where I live people will rob your house , mug you in the streets and everyone travels in a pack. Im not afraid of the government. Im not afraid of being invaded by another country, I am concerned about multiple attackers. Just rego ass people that have been turned into monsters by xanax and crack. Deal with those kind of people before you tell me what I should and shouldnt have.

Your invited homie come spend a weekend or a week where I live. Im sure your heart is set in stone but it might give you a different perspective. Im not an ostrich or an action hero im just a dude trying to make it from one day to the next.

[brinstar]

My only problem with a registry is if it is available to the public but I dont speak for the entire gun crowd on that issue. I dont want criminals being able to make a home break in list while people are at work. I dont care if the government knows im packing but I dont you to be able to look that shit up. Also dont tell me the info wont get out publicly when some asshole in new york i think published gun owners addresses. If the registry is just for tracking gun sales an audits of sellers its alright but if its like the sex offender data base and you can just look it up that isnt ok at all.

tracking all gun sales and regular audits of sellers in exchange for guaranteeing privacy? now that's a compromise i'd be willing to consider. keep it 100% on lockdown so only FBI and ATFE knows. no arguments here.

but like arlos said, it's real stupid to shit on a good idea you agree with simply because it might LEAD to a bad idea you don't agree with. that's like saying we shouldn't have marriage equality because the next step is forcing churches to perform marriages that conflict with their beliefs. i am completely 100% in favor of marriage equality for everyone, but the second some asshole tries to say ALL churches have to participate, you can be damn sure you'll find me (and a majority of pro-equality people) shouting from the other side REAL fast

[Arlos]

I have absolutely no problems with a federal gun registry being kept completely secret from private citizens. FBI, ATF, local police, sure. Random people wanting to look it up? Hell no. Huge privacy violation if nothing else. So hey, we're agreed on that.

I do disagree, though, with an assault rifle being appropriate for "home defense" at all. Mainly, you have the HUGE problem of unintended targets. For example, a 357 magnum revolver can shoot through a concrete wall and kill someone on the other side without a problem. (Heard that from a police officer that was a friend of a friend. Normally they loaded .38 rounds in the .357s, to prevent those kind of downrange incidents. They need to take out someone through a wall, they'd swap to the higher power loads, and boom.) An AR-15 round has a 50-100% higher muzzle velocity than a 357 does, and and a similar increase in bullet energy. ( http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_ballistics_table.htm ) You fire off an assault rifle round and miss (and by your own admission, firefights involve a *LOT* of misses), you could easily kill someone sleeping in their bed in their house across the street. It's exactly that issue why I have always maintained that shotguns (not loaded with large buck or slugs) are the best home defense weapons. No more unwieldy than the assault rifle you want, and more forgiving of your aim being slightly off, especially if the choke is wide open.

As for Australia, it boggles my mind that you are jumping through so many mental hoops to claim that the two places aren't similar, while ignoring the far greater ways in which they are similar. I already agreed that their safety net is better, though you have chosen to ally yourself in our current debate with the side that wants to further REDUCE the safety net here, not improve it. They DO have their own "war on drugs" too, just like we do.

-Arlos

[Spazz]

So we are in agreement that 20 plus rounds is ideal for self defense situations but not on the caliber that should be used ? So in your mind something like the mp5 would be ideal ? I could see that.

[Arlos]

No, I don't see any need for more than 10 rounds in a magazine, any more than I see any need for a M2 .50 cal HMG for home use. Sorry. Something firing a 9mm pistol round would be safer, though by no means "safe", especially for other people in the home given that it'll punch through interior walls without a problem. Still nowhere near as good as a shotgun, though.

Oh, and just FYI, I've seen pretty heinous areas here, and never felt any particular need to go around armed all the time. I've spent lots of time in Oakland, which I'll put up against anywhere when it comes to being gang-central and urban blight. I also lived in East Palo Alto for 10 years, at the time it was ALSO gang central, and just a couple years after it was murder capital of the USA, though by 4-5 years after I moved there it was improving dramatically as it got gentrified. I had my apartment broken into, as well as my car. So you don't have a monopoly on living in bad areas, though I'll happily concede where you live is worse than where I did. Just understand I didn't spend all my time in whitebread suburbia either, and I STILL don't agree with you on guns.

-Arlos

[Jay]

Spazz vs Arlos =P

[araby]

How to beat a dead horse without using a gun...

[Harrison]

I'm just going to leave this here.

http://www.cato.org/blog/bureau-justice ... rely-under

I thought we were in some sort of epidemic of frightening proportions and needed to immediately curb the unstoppable firearm murders plaguing our lives.

Man, I hate it when I'm wrong.

[Harrison]

^media and people dumb enough to gulp down their loads.