Racisms talk

[Spazz]

You cant carry a gun start a situation and then shoot someone when the situation you started goes south. If floridas law says otherwise than its florida with the problem not me. I really wasnt on dorners side either I just tend to side against police corruption, which by the way he did and no one gave 2 shits. Americas moral compass is seriously broken when we allow grown ass men to kill teenagers and cops to do as the please.

[brinstar]

someone explain to me how anything GZ did could be construed as standing his ground? he got out the car and chased the kid. you literally cannot stand your ground while you're chasing someone lol

anything less than a 2nd degree murder conviction is a fucking farce, lick my dilz if you disagree

[Jay]

Can I lick them if I agree?

[ClakarEQ]

I made my opinions clear when this thread began. Feel free to read what I think should happen to Zimmerman.

What I or you think does not matter though.

What the jury thinks against the laws in Florida is the issue and for what I know of them, Zimmerman will not go to jail.

[Menelvir]

I watched a brief clip from a portion of the trial that was recorded from yesterday, and I heard the defense attorney saying "Treyvon Martin armed himself with the sidewalk" (he beat Zimmerman's head against the sidewalk repeatedly) or words to that effect. It sounded silly to hear it, actually.

If I were in charge of the defense, I think I would stay as far away as possible from terminology using the word "armed", in part because my feeling is that the majority of people (especially those inexperienced with firearms), believe that a gun is the ultimate trump regardless of circumstances.

My understanding of the physical confrontation (which Zimmerman was losing badly) is that it devolved into a struggle for the weapon - specifically when Martin became aware that Zimmerman was carrying one and attempted to gain control of it.

I think if I were the defense, I would instead present that as the most prominent feature. Despite everything that led up to the physical confrontation (including the numerous mistakes and egregious errors-in-judgment that Zimmerman made), if you've clearly got the drop on someone, and continue to beat on them, you're not leaving them the option of retreating from the situation (even one they might have initiated). I think that would more effectively present it as a case of self-defense, that is, a situation in which you feel you no longer have options. Further, if you're the one getting the snot beat out of you, and then it turns into a struggle for your weapon, is it reasonable to conclude that if you don't gain control of your weapon and use it, that your attacker will use your own weapon against you at the first opportunity to do so?

What will be most interesting to me is how much Zimmerman's behavior prior to the confrontation will factor in as to whether or not a claim of self-defense is a reasonable claim to make.

[Tikker]

.

[brinstar]

if that specific altercation had taken place in a vacuum, i would be likely to agree

but at every moment up until then zimmerman was the instigator and aggressor, which nullifies the argument that he acted in self-defense (it was martin who actually acted in self-defense)

[Menelvir]

While I'd tend to agree that Zimmerman was the initial aggressor, I'm not willing to concede that Zimmerman remained the aggressor throughout the entire series of events.

The initial contact between Martin and Zimmerman, as I read it, is a textbook example of escalation.

I tend think both participants were guilty of poor judgment in terms of how they decided to interact with each other.

If for example, Martin had chosen not to reciprocate Zimmerman's aggressive demeanor, and instead responded to Zimmerman's question of 'what are you doing here', with something like "I live here, dude, I was just down at the store getting snacks", then the outcome could have been different.

[Drem]

And that very well might have happened. How can we ever know? Witnesses only saw slivers of the action. And most likely, did not see the beginning. So we're just going to believe what this asshole said happened? He doesn't even regret what he did

[Menelvir]

I would not want to make a judgment as to whether this is either: a) 'a reasonable case of self-defense' or b) 'murder', based on the information I have, which I view as conflicting and/or ambiguous. An article in the Miami Herald describes the present information as giving "[...] sharply different pictures of what happened."

Some are willing to make Zimmerman guilty of murder based on the information they have, others are willing to say it was self-defense based on the information they have. How to determine which is correct? That's why we have a justice system.

Part of the point of the trial, if not the entire point, is to suss out as much of the true version of events as they actually happened as is possible.

In theory, at the end of the trial, you've got as much information to make an informed decision about how to assign blame (establish guilt) as it is reasonably possible to get.

That's assuming that our justice system works to the best of its ability for what it is intended to do.

Even if the justice system works perfectly, the results it produces may often seem to be woefully inadequate, as I suspect they will for some in this case, regardless of what the outcome is.

[Harrison]

One more piece of shit wannabe gangster put where he belongs, the ground.

[brinstar]

i still see a murderer and an unarmed child

cunt

[Harrison]

I still see a wannabe gangster who was pounding someone's head into the pavement that got exactly what was coming to him.

Justice was served that day, and rightfully so. It doesn't matter if Zimmerman is a douchebag, and he is.

Trayvon is still guilty of attempted murder and got killed for it. It's cut and dry. You're just so quick to blame the "white man" of racism, that you forget the fucking "kid" was on top of him smashing his head into the pavement.

Self defense, 100%

[brinstar]

I still see a wannabe gangster who was pounding someone's head into the pavement that got exactly what was coming to him.

Justice was served that day, and rightfully so. It doesn't matter if Zimmerman is a douchebag, and he is.

Trayvon is still guilty of attempted murder and got killed for it. It's cut and dry. You're just so quick to blame the "white man" of racism, that you forget the fucking "kid" was on top of him smashing his head into the pavement.

Self defense, 100%

TM didn't have a right to defend himself against an irrational man who followed him for blocks and chased him down hollering? self-defense only = attempted murder when it's a "wannabe gangster" i guess

[leah]

what he said ^

also GZ isn't white, is he?

[Harrison]

No, he's not. That's why I put it in quotes.

Being followed is grounds for pounding someone's skull into the ground.

But shooting the piece of shit trying to kill you is not self defense?

Are you even being serious right now? lol.

[Reynaldo]

It's funny to me because TV shows would lead you to believe they could take 1 blade of grass from the scene and recreate a video of the entire night, but in real life everything leans on what witnesses believe they heard or saw and there doesn't seem to be any real evidence.

And TV shows can store all this massive data on one 3.5" floppy!

[ClakarEQ]

Harri shockingly enough sort of hits on it for me. I get that GZ shouldn't have begun the entire incident and perhaps he can get some misdemeanor for who knows what, I guess for essentially starting a fight.

But if you are now in a fight, and fear for your life, regardless of how it all got to that point, would it not be self defense?

Up until the confrontation, and even after the initial scuffle broke out, what law did GZ break?

It's not against the law to confront people
It's not against the law to speak to and incite people
It's not even against the law to stop and hold a person (within reason, e.g. I'm not saying a hostage situation but a citizens arrest situation, kmart security guards whom are nothing more than normal people with ccw's or whatnot, they can hold you for hours against your will).

[Spazz]

I still see a wannabe gangster who was pounding someone's head into the pavement that got exactly what was coming to him.

Thats prolly because your a racist.


Was TM not defending himself from what he perceived as a threat Also? Wonder what kind of conversation we would be having if tm shot gz instead ? Bet you people wouldnt give him the benefit of the doubt he would be guilty as sin.

So lemme get this straight here. Its not self defense for someone to throw down with someone they perceive as stalking them in the dark but it is self defense to kill someone after you stalk them. I swear to god I live in a country full of the dumbest people.



Harrison as usual your full of shit. How would you react to being stalked on your way home in thr rough hood you live in ? Im pretty sure back in the shacks I would say something to someone stalking me down and we would see where it went from there.

[ClakarEQ]

For me, either could be dead and it would change nothing. That being, it should NEVER have gotten this far in the press as it's just another dead person like the other folks shot dead every day.

I think a better question that would get under you skin
- Would this incident have taken place at all if gun was NOT involved? (the answer is no, at least not death by bullet).
- /loop in the gun's are bad debate

I guess I look at it this way when I try to see through your eyes Spazz.
- You are pro gun, pro ccw, etc (and I'm ok with that, I just don't agree
- You feel this crime was committed in part, from race (again, ok with that, however I think it was profiling)
- You are pissed that a non-black guy killed a black kid (can't say if this is really true or not or if it's just a kid got killed, e.g. would it matter to you if it was a white kid)

For me, the position you're taking is ironic or perhaps hypociritcal is the proper word (and again, I'm not trying to be dicky, just trying to take a step back and review from the outside)

[leah]

do you think GZ would've pursued a white kid like that? i don't.

[Harrison]

Harrison as usual your full of shit. How would you react to being stalked on your way home in thr rough hood you live in ? Im pretty sure back in the shacks I would say something to someone stalking me down and we would see where it went from there.

Lol...

I wouldn't round on the guy and jump on him and start smashing his head into the pavement for following me.

You're a drooling retard if you think this was an appropriate response to, "being stalked".

I've been followed several times and none of them involved me rounding on them, stabbing them, beating the fuck out of them, or shooting them.

You're seriously damaged if you think Trayvon did anything right. (And you proved it by saying you would have done the same.)

Thankfully he won't grow up to be a bigger piece of shit than he already was.

[Jay]

I have a hard time believing a guy who went through a full police academy training course got overpowered and overwhelmed by a skinny 17 y/o

[Menelvir]

I think Zimmerman was legitimately concerned about the rash of burglaries and crime in his area generally and decided to surveil someone he viewed as suspicious, based -- at least initially - on that person's behavior; someone meandering around near houses in rainy weather after dark is more easily construed as someone who might be casing a house.

This person's behavior in the dark would be fairly easily observable, while their race would be far less so.

If Zimmerman would not have behaved similarly had he observed the same thing and knew the person to be white, he wouldn't be a racist, he'd be gullible and/or extremely naive.

[Jay]

Maybe waiting for all the evidence and investigation to be completed, before arguing about speculations, is a better idea. When you are in the middle of an altercation and a person reaches into his pocket, it is always a better choice to shoot first and later check if he had a gun or skittles in his pocket. Better go to jail than end up dead or a cripple.

I get what you mean dude but there's no way this kid was lookin to taste the rainbow suddenly when zim went after him. Im certain the drink and skittles were already in hand. And I don't think zim was thinking, "oh look, it's one o dem negroes! Let's cap him!" but I do think he had a racial predisposition against African Americans which led him to do what he did in the heat of the moment. This is racially motivated because Trayvon's being black put zim in suspicious attack mode. Now if some mark zuckerberg lookin kid with a hoodie were walking around you think it would end the same way? This wasn't a fight it was an execution and Zim needs to be in prison.