Beth Yeshua

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Re: Beth Yeshua

Postby Narrock » Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:20 pm

brinstar wrote:
Narrock wrote:wall of crap


first of all, i'm gonna just go ahead and ignore the CBN.com link because fuck pat robertson and his "ministry"

second, it took me all of about 30 seconds to find on wikipedia that the average annual rate of conversion to christianity from 1910-2010 was 1.32%; meanwhile the average annual rate of conversion to christianity from 2000-2010 is 1.31%, which completely obliterates your claim that "christianity is experiencing its largest growth in history right now"

simple math will tell you it's not even experiencing its largest growth since the automobile was invented, let alone the previous 18+ centuries


CBN isn't the only link that discusses this with the same result. And what's with all the nitpicking about specific dates? Did I say 2014, or even 2013? Modern day Christianity is spreading exponentially, worldwide. Is that better?
“The more I study science the more I believe in God.” -- Albert Einstein
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Re: Beth Yeshua

Postby Narrock » Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:35 pm

Ganzo wrote:These people are not Jews


It doesn't get any more Jewish than this, you asshat.

http://www.bendavidmjc.org/



Our Beliefs



THE BASIS OF OUR FAITH

We believe that the Tanakh (the first 39 books of the Bible) is an accurate, and therefore, reliable record of the origins of all life on earth and of the Creator’s on-going involvement with His creation. Within that record we find a remarkable group of predictive prophecies about a Messianic Person that were fulfilled by Yeshua of Nazareth. We also believe that the historical record preserved and presented in the B'rit Chadashah (the last 27 books of the Bible, also known as the New Covenant) is an accurate and reliable account of the proceedings pertaining to Yeshua and His disciples, and represents the final revelation to man. It is the events described in these two documents that form the basis for our faith.

THE NATURE OF GOD

God, eternally existent, is The Creator of heaven and earth who has revealed Himself throughout the Scriptures as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, One God in Three Persons, commonly referred to as the Tri-Unity of God. (Gen. 1, Deut. 6:4, Is. 48:16, Matt. 28:19, I Cor. 8:6)

THE INSPIRATION OF THE SCRIPTURES

The Holy Scriptures, both the Tanakh and the B'rit Chadashah, are Divine and complete revelations inerrant in the original autographs and were verbally inspired by the Ruach HaKodesh (the Holy Spirit). (I Tim. 3:16, II Pet. 1:21)

THE ATONING WORK OF MESSIAH YESHUA

Yeshua the Messiah took upon Himself the form of man, being conceived by the Ruach HaKodesh and born of the virgin Miriam (Mary), a descendant of King David, of the tribe of Judah, some 2000 years ago. Yeshua died upon the Roman execution cross as a substitutionary sacrifice for the sins of the world. He arose from the dead and ascended into heaven, where He now intercedes for all who place their faith in Him. There is no other way of salvation apart from faith in Him. He will come again visibly to set up His kingdom upon earth and to judge all mankind. (Gen. 3:15 & Isaiah 7:14, Col. 1:15, Phil. 2:5-8, Matt. 1:18-25, I Pet. 2:24,25, Luke 2:4 Heb. 4:14-16, Acts 1:9-11, I Thess.4: 16-18, Matt. 25:31-46, Rev. 11:15-17, 20:4-6 11-15)

MANKIND: PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE

Man was created in the image of God but fell into sin and fell out of his intended relationship with his Creator. If any man wishes to restore that relationship, he must believe in God and believe in the atoning work of His son, Yeshua. Salvation is a gift from God, by grace through faith in Messiah Yeshua. The retribution of the wicked and the unbelieving, and the rewards of the righteous, are everlasting. The reward is conscious, so is the retribution. (Gen. 1:16,27, Rom. 3:10,23, John 3:3, Acts 13:38,39, 4:12, John 3:16, Matt. 25:46, II Cor. 5:1, II Thess. 1:7-10)

THE BODY OF MESSIAH

The Congregation, or body of believers in Messiah Yeshua, is a group of believers immersed (baptized) into one body. Every member of that body is permanently indwelt by the Ruach HaKodesh when they place their faith in Yeshua. The salvation of each believer is eternally secured by the indwelling Ruach HaKodesh rather than by works. The goals of the Congregation are (1) to instruct and encourage those who have already placed their faith in Yeshua, and (2) to witness concerning Messiah, preaching the gospel (good news) to all people. At the Lord's second physical appearance the body of believers, known as the Bride of Messiah, will be caught up to meet Him in the air and will remain in His presence thereafter. The body is distinct from Israel and is composed of both Jews and Gentiles. (Acts 2:41, 15:13-17, Eph. 1:3-6, I Cor. 12:12,13, John 10:28,29, Matt. 28:19-20, Acts 1:6-8, I Thess. 4:16-18)

THE BELIEVER AND THE 'MOSAIC LAWS'

The “Mosaic Laws,” or the “Sinai Covenant” (some improperly refer to it as “The Torah”) was a "Conditional Covenant" (Ex. 19:5) between God and the children of Israel that was first instituted following the Exodus. It was declared “broken” by the Lord Himself about 800 years later (Jer. 31:32). However, God promised (Jer. 31:31) that He would make a “New Covenant” at an unspecified future time. Some 600 years later, Yeshua instituted that New Covenant (Lu. 22:20). Therefore, all believers today, whether Jewish or Gentile, are no longer under the obligations and the condemnation of the Mosaic Laws but are under the teachings of Messiah (I Cor. 9:21, Gal. 6:2). As such, we have the freedom in Messiah to observe (or not) whatever portions of the ceremonial Mosaic Laws (e.g. the Levitical “Appointed Times,” Lv. 23) we choose. It should be mentioned that these outward observances themselves were never the means to salvation; it has always been by faith, even from the days of Abraham (Gen. 15:6, Ro. 4:3, Gal. 3:6, Jas. 2:23). This is clearly re-stated in Eph. 2:8, “For by grace you have been saved by faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works so that no one may boast.” Also, we believe that the "Oral Law," the Talmud, is a document not inspired by the Holy Spirit, but a rabbinic compilation of commentaries and traditions, therefore, must be subordinate to the teachings of the Bible.

For a list of the 613 laws please click here: Adobe PDF format or Excel XLSX format.

(Click below to listen to a sermon on the "Mosaic Laws.")

THE JEWISH WAY TO RETURN TO GOD

What did the ancient Jewish prophets and sages know which most people today have never found? Please click here for an insightful list of Scriptural passages.

ISRAEL

Israel is a nation of people created and sustained by God to be a holy nation and a kingdom of priests (Ex. 19:6). The Abrahamic Covenant is an unconditional, irrevocable covenant that God promised to Israel, and God’s promises have not changed. Jewish believers in Yeshua have a twofold identity. They are the spiritual remnant of physical Israel and at the same time are part of the body of Messiah. (Gen. 12:1-3, 15:1-21, 17:1-21; Romans 11:1-29)

WE ARE MEMBERS OF AMC

In order to better be in touch with the community of Messianic believers, God has led us to join the new Association of Messianic Congregations, or AMC. All congregations must sign a doctrinal statement, which you can find here. We are excited and honored to be a part of this historic event, and look forward to working with the wonderful people affiliated with the AMC.




This seriously makes me want to move SoCal, but we have good jobs here.
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Re: Beth Yeshua

Postby Ganzo » Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:55 pm

If you just wanted to troll, should have said so. I'll join in on the fun.

Hey Mindia, you should move to Dearborn MI and join this Christian church, it doesn't get any more Christian that these guys.
The purpose for which the Islamic Center of America was formed is to receive, administer and distribute funds to; preserve and teach the religion of Islam; perpetuate the social, moral, and religious standards of Muslims in the United States; teach the Arabic language; educate the American society about Islam and the Arab culture and to promote a positive relationship with the religious Marj'aiyah that follows the Ja'afari School of Ahlul Bayt.
גם זה יעבור

Narrock wrote:Yup, I ... was just trolling.

Narrock wrote:I wikipedia'd everything first.
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Re: Beth Yeshua

Postby Narrock » Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:39 am

I'm not trolling, you schmuck. You are calling Jewish people non-Jewish. How much more trolltastic can one get? Then post a link to a Muslim/Satanist center and call it a Christian church? You are confused, sir. And you're a schmuck.

Schmuck (pejorative)
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Schmuck or shmuck in American English is a pejorative meaning one who is stupid or foolish; or an obnoxious, contemptible or detestable person. The word entered English from Yiddish, where it has similar pejorative meanings, but its original meaning in Yiddish is penis


There it is folks... "Ganzo" and "Schmuck" are interchangeable.

And you SUCK at being Jewish.
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Re: Beth Yeshua

Postby brinstar » Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:22 pm

Narrock wrote:Muslim/Satanist center


troll detected
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Re: Beth Yeshua

Postby Narrock » Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:01 pm

brinstar wrote:
Narrock wrote:Muslim/Satanist center


troll detected


True. Sorry, Ganzo made me red with lividity and I threw that in there childishly.
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Re: Beth Yeshua

Postby Drem » Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:04 am

did....did Mindia just admit fault?
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Re: Beth Yeshua

Postby Narrock » Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:23 am

Drem wrote:did....did Mindia just admit fault?


Yup, I lumped in Muslims with satanism, but was just trolling.
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Re: Beth Yeshua

Postby Narrock » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:33 pm

Ganzo wrote:If you just wanted to troll, should have said so. I'll join in on the fun.

Hey Mindia, you should move to Dearborn MI and join this Christian church, it doesn't get any more Christian that these guys.
The purpose for which the Islamic Center of America was formed is to receive, administer and distribute funds to; preserve and teach the religion of Islam; perpetuate the social, moral, and religious standards of Muslims in the United States; teach the Arabic language; educate the American society about Islam and the Arab culture and to promote a positive relationship with the religious Marj'aiyah that follows the Ja'afari School of Ahlul Bayt.


Come to Rebbe Mindia:s Yeshiva katana. I will set you on the right path. :-)
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Re: Beth Yeshua

Postby Ganzo » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:52 pm

"Katana" is a Samurai Sword, I think you wanted to say "k'tana" the female version of Hebrew for "small", I see how you were confused because the male version is "katan". Just like in the "large" translation male "gadol" becomes female "g'dola" not "gadola".

Also Rebbe means Religious Leader, you wanted to say Rabbi which means Teacher
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Narrock wrote:Yup, I ... was just trolling.

Narrock wrote:I wikipedia'd everything first.
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Re: Beth Yeshua

Postby brinstar » Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:02 pm

YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T KNOW JUDAISM GANZO
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Re: Beth Yeshua

Postby Narrock » Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:08 pm

Ganzo wrote:"Katana" is a Samurai Sword, I think you wanted to say "k'tana" te female version of Hebrew for "small", I see how you were confused because the male version is "katan". Just like in the "large" translation male "gadol" becomes female "g'dola" not "gadola".

Also Rebbe means Religious Leader, you wanted to say Rabbi which means Teacher


I did mean Rebbe, not Rabbi... . I wikipedia'd everything first. Do you ever fucking laugh? Why be so stiff?
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Re: Beth Yeshua

Postby Narrock » Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:33 pm

brinstar wrote:YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T KNOW JUDAISM GANZO


Yup, you're right. His knowledge of Hebrew and common knowledge of basic Jewish things makes him an expert at Judaism.
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Re: Beth Yeshua

Postby Ganzo » Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:41 pm

Narrock wrote:I wikipedia'd everything first.


Taking it for my new sig.

As far as laughing, you obviously don't understand Jewish humor, we laugh in 2 ways: sarcasm or mocking
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Re: Beth Yeshua

Postby Narrock » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:33 pm

What language did the Jewish gay man speak? Heblew
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Re: Beth Yeshua

Postby Ganzo » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:47 pm

I prefer:
A Catholic Priest and a Rabbi walking down the street see a small boy.
A Catholic Priest points to a boy and says: "Let's fuck him."
A Rabbi replies: "Out of what?"
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Narrock wrote:Yup, I ... was just trolling.

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Re: Beth Yeshua

Postby Narrock » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:48 pm

Lol that's so wrong
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Re: Beth Yeshua

Postby Narrock » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:01 pm

Ok, let's just say for argument's sake that you were miraculously talked into attending a Shabbat service at a Temple Ben David or Temple Beth Yeshua type center for research purposes. Do you presuppose that you would be thinking to yourself "wtf is wrong with you people?" Or do you think everything they do/say is on track except for the part about accepting that Jesus is the Messiah? In your opinion, how far off from a Shabbat service are these Messianic Jews from a traditional Jewish Shabbat service? How about similarities?
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Re: Beth Yeshua

Postby Ganzo » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:12 pm

First to answer your question: No I would not attend, because I can’t comprehend uttering “Shema” and “Aleinu” and then mentioning Jesus as a Messhiah and God. That is a worse blasphemy than just going to a regular church or a mosque.
Let me put it in perspective. If you went to a Christian church for a Sunday services and everything went exactly as you always have it but in the middle of your prayer you were required to say “There is no G”d but the Allah and Mohammed is his Prophet” but the rest of the service was exactly the same, how would you feel about it.
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Re: Beth Yeshua

Postby Narrock » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:54 pm

Well, I asked for your perspective and I got it, thanks. But you have to agree that to YOU, that would be blasphemous, but in the heart of tthe Messianic Jew, he/she thinks they are being extremely honorable to God with their prayers. Its probably incomprehensible to them that they are being blasphemous.

I don't think you're comparing apples to apples with your question to me because we both pray to the same God, Jehovah. And I also don't claim that Mohammad was not a prophet.
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Re: Beth Yeshua

Postby Ganzo » Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:05 am

You have to understand that there are specific words you are saying in those prayers that are contradicted by praying to Jesus, and those 2 prayers are essential to any service. How people who say them in JforJ is beyond me unless they say them in Hebrew without knowledge of Hebrew and so they do not understand what they are saying.

Narrock wrote:And I also don't claim that Mohammad was not a prophet.
You realize that if you acknowledge him as a prophet then you must accept that what he said was a prophecy - direct command from G"d. In that case you should follow everything that he said and be a Muslim or you are breaking a direct command from G"d. How do you resolve that
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Re: Beth Yeshua

Postby Narrock » Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:59 am

Ok I understand your points. Remember that a JforJ doesn't just pray to Jesus. They pray to the Holy Trinity... the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. When I pray, I always start with "Heavenly Father..." meaning God, and I always end my prayers with, "In Jesus' name I pray. Amen.". I don't see a contradiction or blasphemy when I believe that God sent his only begotten Son to die for my sins. It is the utmost in honoring God, IMO.

And your point is well taken about Mohammed. I guess what I meant is that he was a prophet to Islamic people and that he was allegedly spoken to by Allah, thus a prophetical figure in the Muslim faith. But just because I acknowledge that does not mean I need to believe in Mohammad as a prophet in my faith, otherwise I would be Muslim. There are several verses in the Quran that I find quite abhorrent, on a side note.
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Re: Beth Yeshua

Postby Ganzo » Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:58 am

Narrock wrote:I guess what I meant is that he was a prophet to Islamic people and that he was allegedly spoken to by Allah, thus a prophetical figure in the Muslim faith. But just because I acknowledge that does not mean I need to believe in Mohammad as a prophet in my faith, otherwise I would be Muslim.


Note: Where you see HaShem(my faith prohibits me from actually typing out the name of G"d here but HaShem literally means "The Name" and is used to represent what you guys call The Father and all the mispronunciation of the Tetragrammaton; in fact this ban on using Holly Name should apply to you as well since it is the 4th Commandment)

In this case you are acknowledging that there is more than one G"d. Do you believe that Allah is a different deity than HaShem? Do you believe that there are multiple deities in existence for each of the existing faiths? Because if you do then you are breaking 1st and 2nd Commandments and if you do not then you believe that Allah is just another name of HaShem and in that case if you already acknowledge that Mohammad was the prophet of Allah than by not following him you are breaking HaShem's will and command. So which is it?
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Re: Beth Yeshua

Postby Ganzo » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:15 am

Narrock wrote:Ok I understand your points. Remember that a JforJ doesn't just pray to Jesus. They pray to the Holy Trinity... the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. When I pray, I always start with "Heavenly Father..." meaning God, and I always end my prayers with, "In Jesus' name I pray. Amen.". I don't see a contradiction or blasphemy when I believe that God sent his only begotten Son to die for my sins. It is the utmost in honoring God, IMO.

The words of Shema (the very first prayer given to us in the Torah itself) translated into English:
Hear o Israel, The G"d is Almighty, The G"d is One

How can you say this and follow it up with a Trinity? How can you have Trinity and not break 1st "I am the Lord your G"d" and 2nd "You shall have no other gods before me" Commandments?

Same goes for Aleinu, another prayer straight from the Torah translated into English:
G"d is One, and G"d's Name is One


Like I said there are details that make the entire service into a sham when you start looking into it instead of blindly following words in Hebrew because they sound holly. When we were at Mt. Sinai and received the Torah and the Ten Commandments we were give the key commandment prior to receiving it (translated from Hebrew) "You Will Believe and You Will Understand" so for my religion just believing is not enough, every word must be analyzed and studied and understood, you have to question everything and know and understand what and why you are saying and doing for everything in our faith. Blind faith is frowned upon.
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Re: Beth Yeshua

Postby Narrock » Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:01 pm

I don't see how a discussion about God is breaking a commandment. Writing or uttering His name is not taking His name in vain, but if you do think that, then i can respect that, and we can agree to disagree

I'm also not breaking the First Commandment because Jesus fulfilled the prophecies of the Messiah. I'm not going to list them all, but instead, post this link which explains them. And since this is the basis of my faith, I will not waste my time arguing about what anybody says about Jesus NOT fulfilling Messianic prophecy.You have your beliefs about it, and I have mine.

http://christianity.about.com/od/biblef ... -Jesus.htm

And about Mohammad... if you can't accept my stance on him, I have no problem refereeing to him as the philosopher Mohammad.
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