ferguson, mo

[brinstar]

mayor: white
police chief: white
city council: five white, one black
school board: seven white
police force: 50 white officers, 3 black officers
rest of town population: 70% black

white cop shoots unarmed black kid to death in front of witnesses, yet FPD doesn't bother interviewing anyone. community gets mad and holds rallies, FPD flips into military mode complete with snipers and grenades and tanks. two well-known reporters are arrested in a mcdonald's for no reason. one cop filmed screaming "come on you fucking animals, bring it".

lol if anyone still thinks a) we don't live in a police state or b) racism is dead and gone or c) it's safe to be anything other than white/male in this country

[Jay]

I don't live in a police state and I think I'm pretty safe and not white /shrug. Racism isn't dead and gone but that's just obvious to anyone with a fraction of a brain.

What happened that escalated to the point where the cop shot the unnarmed kid? Did the kid try and fight him or take his gun or was he just minding his business when a cop decided, hey lets cap this negro?

[Ganzo]

mayor: white
police chief: white
city council: five white, one black
school board: seven white
police force: 50 white officers, 3 black officers
rest of town population: 70% black

white cop shoots unarmed black kid to death in front of witnesses, yet FPD doesn't bother interviewing anyone. community gets mad and holds rallies, FPD flips into military mode complete with snipers and grenades and tanks. two well-known reporters are arrested in a mcdonald's for no reason. one cop filmed screaming "come on you fucking animals, bring it".

lol if anyone still thinks a) we don't live in a police state or b) racism is dead and gone or c) it's safe to be anything other than white/male in this country

Zionist plot

[Spazz]

What happened that escalated to the point where the cop shot the unnarmed kid? Did the kid try and fight him or take his gun or was he just minding his business when a cop decided, hey lets cap this negro

Get outta here with this . Anytime youve got an un armed kid dead and a guy with a utility belt full of weapons whos alive its not that hard to figure out what happened. You dont notice a pattern of cops killing folks then saying , he went for my gun , or I felt threatened. This kid got harassed for being black and then murdered for havin an atitude bout the harassment. Its not defensible jay dont even try.

[brinstar]

I don't live in a police state and I think I'm pretty safe and not white /shrug. Racism isn't dead and gone but that's just obvious to anyone with a fraction of a brain.

What happened that escalated to the point where the cop shot the unnarmed kid? Did the kid try and fight him or take his gun or was he just minding his business when a cop decided, hey lets cap this negro?

from what i understand based on witness accounts, roundabout 215pm on saturday afternoon:

-victim and his friend were walking in the street on the way to vic's grandma's house
-officer mcwhitey slowly rolls by and yells "get the fuck on the sidewalk" twice out his window
-victim and his friend reply that they're almost there, continue walking in street
-ofc throws his truck in reverse and almost hits them, "what did you say?"
-ofc shoves truck door open, bashing victim off-balance
-ofc exits veh and grabs vic by throat, vic attempts to break free
-still gripping vic's shirt, ofc says "i'm gonna shoot you"
-ofc pulls firearm, discharges into vic's abdomen
-vic breaks loose and flees with friend
-ofc fires again, vic is struck in the back
-vic stops, turns, stands still, throws hands up and says "don't shoot i'm unarmed"
-ofc aims and fires several more times
-vic crumples to the ground
-ofc closes distance and fires again
-friend flees into nearby home, vomits, checks self for bullet holes
-five minutes later friend comes back outside
-ofc and truck are gone, crowd is gathered around dead vic lying on street

were they minding their business? yeah
were they jaywalking? okay sure but that's a fine at most, not immediately punishable by having your trachea crushed let alone shot
was there a struggle? only after mcwhitey escalated

don't like me swearing at you? gonna choke ya.
don't like my chokehold? gonna shoot ya.
running away? gonna shoot ya.
standing still with your hands up? gonna shoot ya.
lying in a pool of blood on the ground? gonna shoot ya. and leave.

and again, this all happened in broad daylight.

oh, and before anyone tries calling the victim "violent" or a "thug" (which is usually just code for "nigger") - he had no criminal record, got decent grades, had a high school diploma, and was supposed to start college on monday. Walking While Black.

[Spazz]

spot on post brin.

[Jay]

What happened that escalated to the point where the cop shot the unnarmed kid? Did the kid try and fight him or take his gun or was he just minding his business when a cop decided, hey lets cap this negro

Get outta here with this . Anytime youve got an un armed kid dead and a guy with a utility belt full of weapons whos alive its not that hard to figure out what happened. You dont notice a pattern of cops killing folks then saying , he went for my gun , or I felt threatened. This kid got harassed for being black and then murdered for havin an atitude bout the harassment. Its not defensible jay dont even try.

Anytime you leave zero room for the possibility that something else could have happened, you think just like that cop did. In his mind, there was zero chance those kids weren't simply walking to his grandmas house. They were definitely causing some trouble. The moment we stop examining a situation and go straight to a conclusion is when a misunderstanding turns into something way worse. Maybe in this situation, it was pretty cut and dry according to Brin's last post there.

I didn't know anything about this case. I was ASKING. That's what you do when there's a scenario and you need to know what happened. Things aren't always what they seem, and in this case, sometimes they are. The thought of a police officer discharging a weapon into a random civilian is crazy to me so when someone claims it happened, I ask questions. I don't just assume there was nothing more to it.

And no, I don't notice a pattern of cops killing folks and making excuses. I know what I see on the news, and I also know that my parents moved me and my brother to the burbs and I have since lived in the burbs and now raise my own family in the burbs. In my experience, cops are just like regular people (omg!). Some are nice, some are dicks, some are in between.

[brinstar]

Anytime you leave zero room for the possibility that something else could have happened, you think just like that cop did. In his mind, there was zero chance those kids weren't simply walking to his grandmas house. They were definitely causing some trouble. The moment we stop examining a situation and go straight to a conclusion is when a misunderstanding turns into something way worse. Maybe in this situation, it was pretty cut and dry according to Brin's last post there.

I didn't know anything about this case. I was ASKING. That's what you do when there's a scenario and you need to know what happened. Things aren't always what they seem, and in this case, sometimes they are. The thought of a police officer discharging a weapon into a random civilian is crazy to me so when someone claims it happened, I ask questions. I don't just assume there was nothing more to it.

And no, I don't notice a pattern of cops killing folks and making excuses. I know what I see on the news, and I also know that my parents moved me and my brother to the burbs and I have since lived in the burbs and now raise my own family in the burbs. In my experience, cops are just like regular people (omg!). Some are nice, some are dicks, some are in between.

these are mostly fair points, and let me add that the witness reports have not been confirmed yet (although apparently FPD have made no attempts to interview any witnesses lol). all we do know and can say for sure is that an unarmed black kid was walking down the street and had some sort of interaction with a white police officer that ended with the kid dead in the street and the cop gone. it is certainly unfair to jump to conclusions about the motivations/behaviour of either the kid OR the cop, but the fact remains an unarmed kid (who by all accounts attempted first to flee and then to surrender) was gunned down and left alone in a pool of blood. that is not an acceptable outcome for any possible circumstances i can imagine.

that being said, while you are asking these questions perhaps you should ask yourself whether it's possible that SR and ferguson aren't really alike at all - or, more importantly, that perhaps you lack understanding when it comes to the complicated relationships between poor blacks and white cops (especially in the South). i'm super white myself so i also clearly lack that understanding on an internal/personal level, but i think it takes a lot of effort to remain oblivious to the fact that predominantly white law enforcement departments in areas that are predominantly non-white take a much more adversarial stance against the public than in places like Lincoln (86% of population is white, 3.6% black) or San Rafael (70% white, 2% black).

[Kramer]

mindia hasn't posted... he must've moved to ferguson to join the poilce academy

the whole thing is sad and stinks.

and yeah, there are so many things wrong on so many levels from way up high cultural/social/racial, to the way the cops actually addressed and treated a citizen.

[brinstar]

a friend on FB just now:

"I wonder when all the open-carry folks are going to Ferguson to protect constitutional rights."

re: freedom of press (reporters being teargassed and arrested), and of course freedoms of speech and assembly being trampled

[Tuggan]

you don't see a pattern jay? just the last week or so we've had this kid in MO, a handicapped black guy in LA shot in the street, and that black kid in walmart buying a BB gun. all gunned down by the cops, in the last 10 days.

i'm glad these people are protesting and rioting, i hope it keeps escalating. i hope these fucking ferguson cops do more stupid shit to innocent people. more people need to start paying attention to the ferocity in which police are going after americans.

[Jay]

Anytime you leave zero room for the possibility that something else could have happened, you think just like that cop did. In his mind, there was zero chance those kids weren't simply walking to his grandmas house. They were definitely causing some trouble. The moment we stop examining a situation and go straight to a conclusion is when a misunderstanding turns into something way worse. Maybe in this situation, it was pretty cut and dry according to Brin's last post there.

I didn't know anything about this case. I was ASKING. That's what you do when there's a scenario and you need to know what happened. Things aren't always what they seem, and in this case, sometimes they are. The thought of a police officer discharging a weapon into a random civilian is crazy to me so when someone claims it happened, I ask questions. I don't just assume there was nothing more to it.

And no, I don't notice a pattern of cops killing folks and making excuses. I know what I see on the news, and I also know that my parents moved me and my brother to the burbs and I have since lived in the burbs and now raise my own family in the burbs. In my experience, cops are just like regular people (omg!). Some are nice, some are dicks, some are in between.

these are mostly fair points, and let me add that the witness reports have not been confirmed yet (although apparently FPD have made no attempts to interview any witnesses lol). all we do know and can say for sure is that an unarmed black kid was walking down the street and had some sort of interaction with a white police officer that ended with the kid dead in the street and the cop gone. it is certainly unfair to jump to conclusions about the motivations/behaviour of either the kid OR the cop, but the fact remains an unarmed kid (who by all accounts attempted first to flee and then to surrender) was gunned down and left alone in a pool of blood. that is not an acceptable outcome for any possible circumstances i can imagine.

that being said, while you are asking these questions perhaps you should ask yourself whether it's possible that SR and ferguson aren't really alike at all - or, more importantly, that perhaps you lack understanding when it comes to the complicated relationships between poor blacks and white cops (especially in the South). i'm super white myself so i also clearly lack that understanding on an internal/personal level, but i think it takes a lot of effort to remain oblivious to the fact that predominantly white law enforcement departments in areas that are predominantly non-white take a much more adversarial stance against the public than in places like Lincoln (86% of population is white, 3.6% black) or San Rafael (70% white, 2% black).

That's a fair statement. Oh and I definitely know SR is nothing like Ferguson. I don't know what it's like to be a poor black person living in a poor black neighborhood where my immediate authority is the equivalent of Mendez from Orange is the New Black. Even with the social circumstances being what they are, I just choose to not rule out anything until I know without a shadow of a doubt. Sometimes the topic of social justice can cloud people's judgement. What if, despite all these circumstances, the kid really did attack the cop and the cop defended himself from perceived danger to his life in accordance to his academy training? Would he be treated fairly or would it still be a black vs white thing? If this guy is a racist scumbag, I wanna rule out all possibility that he WASN'T a racist scumbag before I say flay him for the injustice that he's committed. That's why I ask those questions.

[Jay]

you don't see a pattern jay? just the last week or so we've had this kid in MO, a handicapped black guy in LA shot in the street, and that black kid in walmart buying a BB gun. all gunned down by the cops, in the last 10 days.

i'm glad these people are protesting and rioting, i hope it keeps escalating. i hope these fucking ferguson cops do more stupid shit to innocent people. more people need to start paying attention to the ferocity in which police are going after americans.

And that's what you see on the news Tugg. You know what doesn't get reported? Good things that cops do.

I live in a nice neighborhood and I don't commit crimes so naturally I have no issues with cops since they have no reason to assert their authority with me. That's my experience. I'm aware its different for you because of where you are or where you're from, and I can't pretend to understand that. I just don't. Maybe you should just move to my neighborhood and you'll like cops /shrug.

[Tuggan]

why would the news report on people doing their jobs the way they're supposed to be done? i don't care if it's 1 out of 1 million, killing unarmed american's isn't something that should be acceptable, ever.

i don't live in a shithole, outside of detroit most of metro-detroit is just like everywhere else in middle class america. that doesn't mean i have to sit in my nice white neighborhood and deny the fact that police are becoming more and more aggressive over time.

[Spazz]

Yea jay its a good thing we dont know all the facts on all of these stories. Why would they keep it quiet considering that what it looks like without those cop facts is that the police are killing and beating down nigs at an alarming rate.

[Harrison]

I just don't understand the looting.

You're pissed? Check.
Legitimate reason to be pissed? Check. Check.
So you attack, rob, and set fire to completely unrelated entities to the legitimate reason you're pissed? Ummm? You lost me right about there.

If what's being said about the incident is true and a lynch mob came and strung up the officer who did it, I wouldn't even care. I'd actually be all for it since let's face it, the police wouldn't punish their own and most of us know that. But now that they've moved from protesting to wanton rioting and theft? I just don't care anymore. They're animals looking for excuses to be animals now. Fuck them.

[Arlos]

Well, in some ways you've got a parallel here. Not all cops are bad. Not all are racist assholes who abuse their authority and harass people, and certainly not allare taking their chances to kill people and get away with it. There ARE good cops out there. The truly bad ones are, IMHO, a small subset of the whole. (I am leaving aside here the question of the growing militarizing of police, etc. Just talking about the attitudes and actions of the individual officers)

Likewise, not all protesters are going around looting and pillaging. They're also a small subset of the whole. They're the bad apples in the protest that are abusing the protests to steal shit, and that's also wrong. But to tar ALL the protestors with the same brush that you tar the looting ones is just as unfair as claiming ALL cops are murderous thugs.

A friend of a friend is a police officer, actually. I've met her once or twice, but can't claim to know her well. She responded to my suggestion that all police be required to wear a Google Glass like audio-visual recording device at all times, to provide incontrovertable proof in cases like this. My argument is that it protects the public, by stopping the bad apples from abusing their power, if they know there's an absolute record of it. Likewise, it protects the officers from false accusations of misconduct or brutality, which ALSO does occur. This was her responses:

I think body cams/car cams are super fine with me. We have 180 degree cams and mics. I dont do anything but my job that the bystander or car cam Im expecting to be recording shows. So many good cops exist and do the right thing every day. Many false allegations by citizens on officers have been cleared by these videos. Its sad to see my coworkers go through the false claim investigations, it's fucking ruff. Im a huge supporter tho of the right to charge those citizens who outright falsely accuse an officer of wrong doing when the video clearly shows otherwise. If the officer is a bad apple and is truly *bad*, then cams are good for the profession & weeding them out. But I also will add tho that citizens interpretations and understanding of what cops do is rarely close to reality. What they perceive as a bad attidude or tension from a cop is usually unfairly judged unless they walk a day in a cops shoes.

Yesterday at 1:07am · Like · 1
I disagree that it's the non action of the good ones that tars the profession. It's the ones that don't know themselves enough to know when they need to take a step back... Among some other things. The laundry list of qualifications to be a good cop and keep urself and others alive at a split second decision isn't always easy to figure out in any 6 month hiring process. Having to take on the roll of judge, juror, psychologist, friend, role model and overall peacemaker is a HUGE expectation for most people. Most would not want to be making split second decisions and problem solving others lives for 12 hrs a day. It kinda sucks sometimes. Yes we. They. Fuck up sometimes. Its sucks when we do. We all think that.

-Arlos

[Harrison]

Yeah, I suppose saying they're all at fault is equally as dumb.

I'm just getting sick of the cop bashing lately which is mostly unwarranted nonsense, this being the exception.

A friend of mine got arrested the other day for, "flipping off a cop." She went on and on saying pigs should all die, fuck the police, etc.

What she left out of course, as is usual with these types of people, is that she was shitfaced drunk in public causing a scene and being a cunt. She flipped the cop off on her way out as a last fuck you and the guy just had it, and arrested her for the aforementioned issues.

That doesn't have much to do with this specific case, I know. It's just the type of thing that floods my facebook feed and it's fucking annoying. I stopped hating all cops when I stopped being a kid doing dumb shit that cops need to be involved for. Some people just never get out of that state of mind and never grow up.

I still hate a good portion of my local PD for being nuisances when I'm out for a run at night but, that's just because there's quite literally nothing better for them to do here. I mean, as opposed to across the river in New Bedford where 7 people get shot or stabbed a night...

[brinstar]

I just don't understand the looting.

You're pissed? Check.
Legitimate reason to be pissed? Check. Check.
So you attack, rob, and set fire to completely unrelated entities to the legitimate reason you're pissed? Ummm? You lost me right about there.

If what's being said about the incident is true and a lynch mob came and strung up the officer who did it, I wouldn't even care. I'd actually be all for it since let's face it, the police wouldn't punish their own and most of us know that. But now that they've moved from protesting to wanton rioting and theft? I just don't care anymore. They're animals looking for excuses to be animals now. Fuck them.

i have three points to make about this

1. it's easy to point to the looting and say "you're muddying the waters and making your case worse, if you'd only stay on message and remain peaceful more people would listen". i get it, i really do, but what is not as plainly seen is that this is not just about the killing of one boy - that was just the match that sparked the fire. the kindling and gasoline were building for years upon years, as it's widely known that poverty and undereducation are the leading drivers of crime. it still doesn't excuse the looting, no, but thanks to the steady erosion of blue-collar america and the fact that POC are hugely more susceptible to the negative effects of economic downturn, you can begin to see the source of this deeper frustration at a society that marginalizes them and treats - no, has ALWAYS treated them like animals. look again at the imbalance of power between the tiny white minority and the huge black majority in Ferguson, and tell me everyone is treated as equals! and then, look at the disparity between arrest rates and incarceration rates! if you raise a puppy by chaining it up in the yard and beating it every day, are you going to end up with a nice friendly dog that never bites anyone? hell no. if you treat people like animals for long enough, don't be surprised when they start acting like animals.

2. along with #1, what does it say about a nation and its view on physical possessions when some smashed windows and a razed gas station get more media attention than a murdered college enrollee? it says that hey, we might perforate your sons and leave them dead in the streets, but DON'T YOU FUCKIN DARE steal stuff or do property damage! that is upside down to me. two wrongs never make a right, but our sense of scale seems to be askew, doesn't it? the cops are supposed to serve and protect, but all they're serving is wealth, and all they're protecting is property.

3. as arlos pointed out, it's just as disingenuous to assume all protestors are violent looters and arsonists as it is to assume all cops are racist murderers. the vast majority of them have not done anything wrong, and are just peacefully petitioning their government for a redress of grievances as protected by the bill of rights. it's not outlandish to draw a comparison with Occupy either, because for all the negative press that came from a couple of smashed windows here and there, most cities with Occupy camps actually saw crime rates go DOWN - mainly because the people at those camps fed and sheltered the homeless and desperate, rather than ignoring them and economically brutalizing them as is the norm. sure, some "black bloc" protestors always show up at those kinds of things and spray paint some stuff, but on more than one occasion the Occupiers actually chased them away and cleaned up after them (including here in LNK).

3.5. i would be remiss if i did not add that you don't know the violent ones weren't agents provocateur. it's a common practice in big anti-government movements/rallies (here i am referring to FPD as a branch of government) for undercover agents to infiltrate the ranks and stir up violence in order to justify harsher response from those not undercover. it's nothing new - the CIA was all over the original civil rights movement back in the 60s, cops dressed up as black bloc in the WTO protests in Seattle '99, it happened earlier this year in Kiev, and yes, there were insiders actively working to discredit Occupy with misbehaviour almost since day one. wouldn't surprise me one bit if it was going on in Ferguson too.

also

I stopped hating all cops when I stopped being a kid doing dumb shit that cops need to be involved for. Some people just never get out of that state of mind and never grow up.

yeah, me too. but you see, that's exactly the problem for POCs - they're never not a suspect. a white cop can roll by and see you or me out on a late night run IN THE STREET and think oh that guy's just out for some exercise, but a black kid (maybe wearing a hoodie)? look at that kid. i'm sure he's up to no good. better investigate. he's clearly violating the law by being in the street. what's he up to? he's probably got a gun in his pocket, or at least a bag of dope. why does he keep looking at me? what's he hiding? HEY KID... and the rest is history.

[Jay]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/tips-for-being-an-unarmed-black-teen,36697/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview:1:Default

Gotta love The Onion LOL

[brinstar]

update:

governor what's-his-face benched the FPD locals and the STL county cops and brought in the highway patrol instead

here's the new commander walking WITH the protesters:



look at the difference in police presence between last night (top) and tonight (bottom)



and guess what? tonight there were no crimes committed, nobody arrested, nothing burned or looted. now do you see what kind of a difference it makes when you replace a police force that sees people as enemy combatants in a war zone with one that sees people as fellow citizens and HUMANS?

[Gypsiyee]

update:

governor what's-his-face benched the FPD locals and the STL county cops and brought in the highway patrol instead

here's the new commander walking WITH the protesters:



look at the difference in police presence between last night (top) and tonight (bottom)



and guess what? tonight there were no crimes committed, nobody arrested, nothing burned or looted. now do you see what kind of a difference it makes when you replace a police force that sees people as enemy combatants in a war zone with one that sees people as fellow citizens and HUMANS?

like^879382573

and holy shit at the fucking swat-level invasion of cops. what sucks too is that I'm sure there are plenty of good officers among them who wanted no part of that level of enforcement in defense of a dirty indefensible cop, but weren't given much of a choice. I mean sure, you're always given a choice.. you can choose to refuse to participate and deal with the repercussions, suspension, job loss, etc. but very few can afford that risk so they comply rather than make waves. vicious cycle that eventually just fuels the fire and perpetuates--and sometimes accelerates--the abuse of the corrupt.

I will say, though, that I'm glad this is getting so much attention. Something needs to change, and not just simply terminating the guy's employment. Being a cop shouldn't be a get out of jail free card for murder 1.

[Arlos]

Boy, I love John Oliver. He nails it. Completely.



-Arlos

[Harrison]

So, not only did he rob a store beforehand, this comes out too.

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/168698- ... -shooting/

There's a lot more to this than, "he just got shot for no reason at all, because he's black."

[brinstar]

first of all it literally does not matter at all whether he robbed the store. it's completely and utterly irrelevant to the incident in the street. to say otherwise is to provide cover for what may (or may not) have been police homicide via use of unnecessary force.

besides, even if his actions at the c-store weren't completely irrelevant (which they fucking are), the store owner said the kid paid for the cigars he could afford and left the rest on the counter - and no one at the store ever reported a robbery/theft/etc at all

as for whether he charged toward the cop truck, i can't say - but either way you gotta admit it's a pretty strong case for outfitting cops with go-pro cameras or whatever, right? because if he did charge, cop can be like "dude look at the tape, i did what i had to do". and if he was really just standing there with his arms up, the grand jury can be like "nope sorry sergeant dickface you're going to jail for a while, better lube up that bunghole". in both outcomes the community calms the fuck down and stops lighting shit on fire

at any rate i don't give a flying fuck what happened at the c-store, and neither should you. whether it was really a robbery or just a simple business transaction, nobody deserves to be gunned down in the street like that. to say otherwise is to slander the victim as somehow deserving of what he got, and the reality is that no one deserves that. this is america, we have due process, we have the right to a trial by a jury of our peers.

edit: also, the IJ Review? lol why not just post links to fucking fox news. WTB real journalism plz