RIP Mr. Williams

[Gaazy]

Sad as it is to say, i know how he felt. Ive sauffered from chronic depression since i was a kid diagnosed with tourettes syndrome trying to deal with it while getting made fun of constantly.
Some days id come home from school and just cry.

Then, i got into junior high and realized ya know what? If anything, im stronger dor having to deal with it. And it was like a switch flipped, i didnt give a shit anymore.


Then years later, i was in a ski wreck at a race in Maine. Some dipshit indian crook doctor gave me multiple bottles of OXycontin 80mg and percocet 10s. Then started the real low point in me. 9 years of heavy pill addiction. Knowing you cant do it on youre own is a horrible feeling. Not many know about this, if any, but ive had a gun in my mouth 3 or 4 times wanting the addiction to be over. I felt like a complete and utter failure in life. I had turned into a monster. One night i was alone on the couch, high of course, and after some contemplation i put a .45 ruger beneath my chin. I must have been shaking so bad it lost aim and when i pulled the trigger it blew a hole in the ceiling. I had hit rock bottom. I thought ya know, i really am a failure, i cant even do THIS right. But it was also kind of a sign. I called my cousin the mext morning, and he had me on his plane to arizona to a top shelf rehab facility. He saved my life that day and he didnt think twice about the 100 grand he had to spend. His firat words when i asked him was call beth, she will wire the money and set it up, and my plane will be at airport at 6am tomorrow. Come back well or not at all. As long as it takes.

And that was that. I learned the tools to fend it off there, and it gets easier and easier every passing week. I have not touched a drug since beinning of last october. And thats no easy feat, as anyone whos dealt with any of that knows. My cousin saved my life.

So when you feel rock bottom, reach out, im always here. 304-890-3254

And if u just see someone struggling, dont wait for them to come to you...go to them and let them know you care. You could save a life

[Jay]

Holy. Fucking. Shit.

Seriously Gaazy, you're a real fuckin man for sharing that and I'm really glad you overcame. Much love and respect dude.

[Arlos]

I never got that low, but I was a mess in my early 20s. Thank the gods I wasn't ending up with a drug addiction on top of it, or I might well not be here.

But yes, I know what it feels like to be depressed and furious all the time. Furious at yourself for being such a failure, furious at the world for not caring, furious at people who were trying to reach out for intruding, and furious at the universe for seeing you drowning and laughing as it dumped a bucket of water on your head. Then add in the helplessness you feel about it all. There's those times where you can feel yourself start to slide from your baseline level of depression and despair, and start slipping down the whirlpool to the depths below. Knowing the emotional pain of the trip down there, knowing what is coming, and yet being utterly powerless to stop the slide down into the pit was just the extra bright stab of pain to go with all of the rest of the black agony you were about to endure. There's also the incredible guilt and self loathing from the feeling of "You don't have it that bad, others have it way worse, how terrible a person are you that you'd feel this depressed when you have no right compared to them?"

For me, sometimes the depressive fits were so bad it would hit me physically. The feeling is really indescribable, really. Closest description is like a black hole had implanted itself in your chest, and was pulling everything inside you into a tight little ball. I'd end up on my bed in a fetal position with my muscles locked, crying silently lest giving voice to what I was feeling was heard by roommates or neighbors, which would have just compounded my shame.

In my case, the worst part of it was brought on by, shocker, a girl. See, I had always been incredibly shy and introverted, and different than most of the other kids. I started reading sentences before I was 2, was reading books on my own by 3, and was reading my parents' books by 4. (starting with their copy of the collected works of Kipling, since I wanted to read the original stories of The Jungle Book and Riki Tiki Tavi.) Not surprisingly, this led to me being picked on and bulled from really 2nd grade on, once we moved away from Phoenix, since I didn't talk or act like the other kids. Intellectually, I wasn't like them, and I didn't know how to blend in. Kansas was the worst, but I still was largely outside the social mainstream all the way through high school. I didn't date at all in high school, and barely at all through most of the first 3 years of college, since I had the winning combination of shyness, introversion, and an utter lack of the experiences necessary to build up those social skills. I certainly had never slept with anyone.

Anyway, right at the very end of my Junior year (literally, like just before finals), I met a girl, (call her Girl 1) and we hit it off. Unfortunately, she had recently started dating someone else, so despite an attraction, dating me was right out. However, she had a friend who was single, and introduced me to her. (Call her Girl 2) We seemed to hit it off really well, and there seemed to be definite mutual interest there. I know I was interested in her at that point. Apparently unfortunately for me at the time, the school year ended before we'd really done more than have 1 date, and she went back to her home in Amherst, MA, and I went back down to CA. We talked on the phone a LOT though (had like a $300+ phone bill for June), and in those calls, we told each other we were in love with each other. A completely new experience for me, you understand, so I was over the moon. We arranged that I'd go out there in the beginning of July, so I could be there for my 21st birthday for us to spend it together. Oh and yes, sleeping together for the first time was definitely discussed.

Well, I got out there, and she treated me like complete shit from the time I got off the plane. Curt, nasty, subtly insulting, lying, the whole works. Certainly no physical contact of any kind. Now remember, I was basically completely new to relationships, was head over heels for this girl, and thought before I went there that she was for me too. Anyway, after a couple days, after getting more and more upset, I finally called her out on what she was doing. She proceeded to tear me up one side and down the other, and then convinced me that me calling her out like that showed that I was a complete asshole, and that it was because I was such an asshole that she was treating me that way, she wanted nothing more to do with me, and it was all my fault. So, I spent much of my 21st birthday on a Greyhound bus from Amherst to Boston, where a high school friend of mine was attending BU. Thinking, that entire trip, that she was right, I WAS an asshole, she treated me as I deserved, and the fact the trip and relationship had failed WAS my fault. (She later told me that she had never actually been interested in me. She had actually been interested in the guy that Girl 1 was dating, and was pissed at her for "stealing" him. So, to "teach her a lesson", she took me, Girl 1's friend, and set out to hurt me as badly as possible, so as to hurt Girl 1 by proxy.)

My worst point was one night when I was sitting at my desk on my computer, where I had been for a while, and then suddenly it was like someone had turned on a light switch, and I became aware of what I was actually doing. I was holding a knife, and I had been running the blade all over my arms, my face, my neck, etc. hard enough to leave scratches and red marks. All without ever being even remotely conscious I was even HOLDING a knife. Given the number of marks, I had apparently been doing that for some time. Had my subconscious had decided at any point to press a little harder, I might well have slashed my wrists or jugular without ever being aware I'd done it. That added a special level of terror to the depressive episodes, as I couldn't even trust myself, since I had already once caught myself coming within a hair of doing myself serious harm without ever being aware of it, and I couldn't know when or if I would do it again, or if I would go further next time.

In any case, sorry about the wall of text. TL;DR version: Depression is something I've struggled with, can empathize with, and will never condemn someone for. Obviously, it's not something I talk about really, well, ever. If any good has or will come out of Robin's death, it's that the discussion is now out in the open, and maybe someone might realize they aren't alone in their feelings, and will be able to get help before they decide to make that final step Robin did.

-Arlos

[Gaazy]

See ive talked to alex about this and maybe you simon on facebook if memory served. People dont realize its a straight up DISEASE. The firat few times, it is a choice, bit once its set in, if you dont have it, imagine the worst flu symptoms you can imagine and theres no way to get your mind off the 'fix'. Ive fortunately never messed with needles, so thts about the only upside.

I was in a deep, dark place all those years, and itll drive you to some things you cant imagine. So i know how Robin felt. I would get off work, go straight to the drug trailor parks, and get my fix.

Its not a choice after a while, as much as you may disagree. Its not about willpower. Its a chemical imbalance in the dopamines, ect.

European countries are completely different. Need help? Guess what, the government will pay for rehab. Thats why their drug use is so much less prevalent. Now in this country, they dont seem to give a shit about all the ODs and getting people help. You mean to tell me they can apend trillions on a ridiculous war, but cant help us here with a problem like this? Can you imagine how much this country would change if there werent such a problem? Death rates, health rates, welfare. Hell, do you know how many ppl inknow that as SOON as they get thwir food stamps trade them straight for pills? Leaving their children without food? Its pathetic. This government has got to help. And most insurance policies dont hve mental health clauses so thats out.

Right now, like i said, i havent touched one since oct 11. I used to be embarrassed, but know what? Im proud of myself now

After those chemicals go imbalanced, it takes a long time to rebalance and your brain to get back to normal. My brainbis hardwired for dope is what it comes down to. The longer you go without, the more rebalanced it gets, and the easier it gets. I rarely think about it anymore.

But these other countries in europe have a pretty damn good system. They actually seemnto give a shit about their inhabitants.

Their STd rates, like AIDS and hep are DRASTICALLY lower bc in every pharmacy pretty much they even give out free clean free needles. They figure if they're gonna use, might as well be safe

[Gaazy]

I just wish more ppl would reach out.

When i was 20 one of my best friends commited suicide. Most beautiful and cheerful person ive ever yet. Just hid her depression like a pro. Just wish she woulda reached out. She mentioned me in her latter and that was just too much for me

[Harrison]

Suicide has taken more than one person from me but, I only talk about one. I have to.

I can't go a single day without curling up and giving up almost. It's an effort to just wake up some days and I have to make up some bullshit to my girlfriend, who is more understanding and caring than anyone I know, to hide it.

I can't tell her, "I had a dream of Jack last night and I refused to go back to bed." She will stress out about it and worry about me, so I go a day without sleep, or two. This goes on until I have a meltdown and just don't come home for a day or two because I need a day to readjust.

I don't know why I can tell you guys but, I can't tell her. I have to hide it daily. It's been years now but I can't handle it.

I fear it's genetic and my son may get it. I've never even come close to suicide myself but, I fear this level of depression may be something he gets that he can't handle.

[Harrison]

I think I'm going to go through the rest of my life wondering. I don't know if I can handle that and I'm fucking tired of pretending to have a handle on it. I really don't.

I'm stable as far as my own feelings go. I just can't deal with the mystery behind why my brother sought a way out via suicide rather than anything else.

[Arlos]

Honestly, if your insurance covers it, I would strongly suggest seeing an actual psychiatrist about it.

Also, my suggestion about your girlfriend is find a time when you HAVEN'T just had a trigger moment, and talk to her about it. Tell her how much it still effects you, that you're not ever considering doing the same thing, but there are times when you just have trouble dealing with it. It sounds like she'd understand that, if you talked to her about it, and it would certainly be more understandable than you disappearing for a day for reasons she doesn't know or understand.

-Arlos

[leah]

first of all, i am just so so sorry that you've been dealing with that, seemingly by yourself, all this time. :\

secondly, i'm with arlos. if your insurance covers it—or even if not, there's always payment plans—i think it would be really, really beneficial to talk to a professional. i know it sucks to cry uncle and admit that you need help, but there is no shame in it whatsoever and a professional might offer just the guidance and insight you need to start moving forward again. this wonderful pack of weirdos you've found here in the NT family is always willing to listen and offer comfort and support, but there's just no substitute for someone who's trained to help worth through these crises.

as an addendum, one of my favorite bloggers wrote about suicide and its ripple effects on family just yesterday: http://dooce.com/2014/08/25/my-captain- ... and-still/ it's difficult to read at times but it also offers a really good analogy to help understand why a person might choose to commit suicide.

[brinstar]

the mystery behind why my brother sought a way out via suicide rather than anything else.

obv i didn't know him, and everyone suffers their own private exquisite pain at the clawed hands of this disease, but i don't think that once it has you by the throat you're thinking of yourself - you're thinking "everyone else would clearly be far better off without me". that's the blackest most insidious poison in this monster's arsenal. it convinces you to look for a way out so you can spare all your loved ones the burden of knowing and attempting to love what you're sure is just the most broken and worthless fucked-up person.

i am blessed with a number of very good friends, but there's one in particular who i consider my brother (in fact more than a few people don't realize we're not related). he had a good job, a girlfriend who thought the world of him, an entire squad of supportive friends, and a daughter whose personality and intelligence glitter like a diamond. yet over the years, depression got its tendrils in him and started hollowing him out from the inside. he started staying up too late, he started drinking too much, he started wasting money he didn't have on gambling (largely on those stupid touchscreen things bars have), and he started engaging in riskier behaviours.

i always invited him over to my place for 40's and vidgames, because i figured that if we just chilled at my place, we (by which i mean "he") couldn't get in any trouble. well one night we had blazed a J and killed a 40 each when a friend called; i figured "what's the harm" so we got a 12pack and went over there. three of our friends + my brother and i hung out on the back deck for a bit and killed about 2 beers each, when my brother went to the bathroom. after a few minutes we noticed he hadn't come back yet, so i went to check on him and the bathroom was empty. rest of the house was empty. i still had my keys so i knew he hadn't gone somewhere in my truck. by this point, about 10 minutes after we noticed he hadn't come back, we called. "oh i'm just going to the gas station to get a candy bar. got the munchies."

we laughed it off, but i still felt kinda nervous. another 10-15 mins go by and i call him again - "the bar a block down from the gas station is having a battle of the metal bands! i'm gonna have a beer or two and then come back." okay, weird, but we're obv big live music fans, so not totally outlandish. about 45 mins later, he calls me back and says he got kicked out because the bouncer saw him breaking up a fight and thought he'd started it. i made sure he was okay, then told him to come right back because it was getting late.

another 20 mins go by, so i call again and he's lost. i tell him find the nearest intersection, tell me what it is, and then sit down. by this point i was nearly sober (plus i was smack in the middle of my old pizza-slingin' turf) so i found him almost immediately. instead of drive him back to the friend's house, i told him i was just gonna take him home. he's like i dunno man let's just find a picnic table somewhere. i'm mad that it's past 3am and i have stuff to do the next day, but i say sure man, there's a park right there. so we sit there, kill almost an entire pack of camels, and he just kinda breaks down and lays it all out: he can't handle it anymore.

he said he hung in there as long as he could, but then he started to daydream about all the ways he was convinced his family and friends would be better off without him around anymore and it just weighed him down every waking moment (especially during episodes of insomnia). my girlfriend will find someone way better who will do the fuckin dishes when she asks him to and not waste rent money on keno, my daughter already has a stepdad who treats her better than i do, my parents would still have two highly successful kids that never dropped out of college and never got divorced, brinstar wouldn't waste his night chasing me around when i get drunk and wander off and pick fights, my boss will find someone more qualified that does a better job, my life insurance check would pay off all my debts with enough left over to start a college fund for my daughter... all this stuff just tumbled out, like he was reciting a list.

of course we're both weeping like giant infants at this point. but i tell him dude you just listed off all the people that would hurt the MOST if you left. how can you think your little girl could possibly be better off? she adores you, i've seen it, and your lady is nuts over you. hell, we all are. we're gonna be the most hilarious pack of old men ever, cussing out kids and making wildly inappropriate comments to nurses, there's no way i'm gonna let you miss out on that. then i had to ask the hardest question i've ever asked anyone - man can i put you in emergency protective custody tonight? i don't wanna get that call tomorrow. he was like no man i'm good for tonight, but then i made him promise that within 48 hours he'd do two things: call a professional to set up some sessions, and open up to his girlfriend about it.

he did both. the professional got him on some medicine and some regular sessions (both with and without the girlfriend), and she poured herself into supporting him in their relationship. everything turned around so much it was amazing. he re-enrolled in school, he moved to omaha, he got a better job, he proposed (and then married) his girlfriend, and now they own a nice home in west omaha and have joint custody of his daughter AND a new baby girl of their own.


so we lucked out and got a happy ending. and i mean that's all it was: luck. first of all, the biggest stroke of luck was the time he actually tried suicide but the shotgun jammed. as if everything after that weren't already borrowed time, the luck continued. it was lucky that we got close over the years since that first attempt. it was lucky that we'd never had a fight that ruined our friendship. it was lucky that he happened to have the night off and was able to come hang out with me. it was lucky that our other friend called. it was lucky that he wandered off and picked a fight at a metal show. it was lucky that he got lost and panicked and got emotional. it was lucky that i decided to come get him (i seriously contemplated just going home and stranding him, it wouldn't have been the first time), and it was lucky that i decided to sit on a park bench and chainsmoke instead of go home and go to bed like an adult would've. but most of all, i think it was lucky that the monster just happened to glance away long enough for him to be able to break the silence and bring it up. any single ONE of those things in the chain doesn't happen and poof he's just a sad memory and a wrinkled photo in our wallets - but thanks to pure dumb luck, he's still a living breathing human.


well that got a little long and i realize hearing a story about how everything turned out okay probably doesn't help at all (and i'm sorry for that) but i guess somewhere around the middle was the reason i brought it up - this disease fucks with you a lot of different ways, but when it's tired of batting you around and decides it's time to go for the throat, it starts lying to you about how everyone you know will be better off without you. eventually you start to believe it, and then all it has to do is get you alone. it's an actual disease, like a cancer of the mind - sometimes you never see it coming, sometimes you see it a mile away and you still can't beat it, and sometimes there are the lucky few that make it through alive. it's not fair that it kills some and not others, or that it flattens some families and brings others closer. it's easy to think of what happened as a failure on your part or a weakness on his - but that's not fair to either of you. the fact is that a hidden disease came out of nowhere, ate him away, and killed him without ever giving itself away.


anyway i'm gonna be blunt for a second: the idea that you're strong enough to go through this all by yourself is very dangerous - it's precisely that kind of thinking that keeps most cases of depression undiagnosed for way too long. the fact that you've mentioned it to us is huge, and by all means i hope doing so helped lift some of that weight, but it's not even close to enough. call a pro. tomorrow. you're not proving anything by letting it get worse. also, while i agree that your girl needs to know (she wants to support you!), and while i like arlos's idea of bringing it up with her during a time you're NOT freaking out, i think that's ultimately a decision you and the pro should make together.

i don't know if any of this shit helps or not but dude just please do not listen to the voice that says you have to carry this alone

[Narrock]

edit: i am not posting this to be flippant. if any of you fuckheads who still read these fora ever feel so hopeless that suicide feels like the only way out, you can always reach out to me. and i mean anyone, even that cunt mindia.

Aaaw, you're too kind, sir.

[Narrock]

For seriously, this one still makes me sad whenever I still think about it. Such a talented guy.

[brinstar]

agreed ;\

PS i mean it, EVEN YOU can come to me with shit like that

[Narrock]