Where our record tax revenues are going

[Lyion]

In the silly season of President, with everyone promising all kinds of <generally legislative> changes, I figured I'd toss down what we are spending and how we are getting it and spending it, especially since some are proposing vast new entitlements or tax cuts, but which would have serious effects here:

[Zanchief]

600 billion on military and 70 billion on education...perfect.

How are you making a profit on Medicare?

[Lyion]

Zan, that 70 billion is for the FEDERAL government. Each state funds it's own schools and generally pays for them via taxes, income or property. That federal money is on top of that, so our spending on education is actually very high. California alone spent 31B on education. Source: http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/com ... tion_spend

Different tangent, but social security and medicare are taxes taken out of every paycheck. Social Security is supposed to be self contained, but it's been raided for decades for general spending.

Social Security provides fixed incomes for those over 65 based on your highest stretch of earnings.

Medicare provides free health care for those over 65. A big platform for Bernie Sanders is for Medicare to provide free health care for everyone.

The 230 billion on debt and the 600 billion on military both are way too high. That said, they are a small piece of the pie compared to entitlement spending which has needed reform for decades but which never gets it due to the effect the biggest bloc of voters in the US are seniors and they punt out anyone who hints at changes, even if they do not impact them.

[Jay]

I'm all for free health care but Medicare is the worst. They are near impossible to work with. You need a mile's worth of paperwork to get paid for anything, and in order to operate with certain products or services, you have to win the competitive bid, and a lot of the bid winners are going out of business or losing heavily in business because Medicare does not account for anything past product cost. If you're a bid winner, you're legally obligated to fulfill all Medicare orders and assuming you make it through the paperwork maze and actually get paid, you're only getting cents to the dollar. Most medical establishments do not wanna deal with Medicare in my experience. Mine is one of them. I'm ok with free healthcare but we need to first reform Medicare. Make it to where we see a Medicare order like any insurance order rather than thinking "God dammit, Medicare. We're gonna eat some shit."

[Lyion]

I agree, Jay. the problem is we are not built for it given how insurance and pharmaceutical companies run America. We'd need a complete makeover of the industry, not expanding something that's already a train wreck. Both political parties are in bed with them. It's a circle jerk.

The really ironic thing is if the government just opened free clinics with state paid workers and got completely out of health care insurance, the costs would plummet and care would be vastly better. Why not take half that military budget and all that Federal Education budget and put it into medical care for the poor and elderly?

The other thing is almost all our medical costs are from trying to keep people with devastating illnesses and injuries alive a few months longer. The sad thing is if Richard Nixon had been able to push through his Federal Assistance for catastrphic healthcare idea, we'd have a completely different landscape today. We need a completely new mousetrap for healthcare, and especially medicare. We also need valid catastrophic health care.

As bad as things are here, we stil have St Jude Children's Hospital.

[Drem]

That federal money is on top of that, so our spending on education is actually very high.

And it's still not nearly enough

[Harrison]

Someone tell me why corporate tax income is so fucking disgustingly low. (I already know the answer, but it was more of a rhetorical...)

[Lyion]

Someone tell me why corporate tax income is so fucking disgustingly low. (I already know the answer, but it was more of a rhetorical...)

The U.S. corporate tax rate is the highest among developed nations and is significantly higher than the average

We have an almost 40% corporate rate. It's terrible. It needs to be much lower. The problem isn't taxes, it's corporate welfare, cronyism, insider deals, and leveraging the global economy to fuck American workers.

[Harrison]

The rate is fucking irrelevant if we give multi-billion dollar corporations money, rather than taxing them at all.

No big deal, Boeing. Take hundreds of millions of dollars. We don't need any taxes. -cronyism

[brinstar]

1. it's asinine to whine about corporate tax rates if they've carved out so many loopholes that the biggest and most profitable corporations actually pay a NEGATIVE effective tax rate. i'm not interested in anyone whining about corporate taxes as long as most fortune 500 companies don't actually pay them

2. it's asinine to whine about entitlements* for two reasons

a. there's a completely bullshit cap on socsec/medicare taxes set at the arbitrary amount of $118,500 (for 2015), which means someone who makes $120K a year pays the exact same DOLLAR AMOUNT into social security as someone who makes $120M a year. if the brackets scaled all the way up ad infinitum like they do from $0-$118.5k, SocSec would be solvent for decades, and that's a fact. should we borrow from it? hell no, but don't even pretend it's a faulty idea or that there isn't a viable solution plain as fucking day staring everyone in the face

b. we are the richest country in history of the world, i am not interested in hearing a pile of bullshit about how we can't afford to provide a dignified existence for our elderly and our infirm. just fuck that noise altogether. first of all, it's not even true - and second of all, fuck, considering the overwhelming amount of overlap between people who call themselves "christian" and people who call themselves "fiscal conservatives" it's startling how easy it is for them to forget Matthew 25:31-46



*fuck the word "entitlements" and fuck those who throw it around like it's some sort of government waste. it implies that people think they should get something for nothing, which is completely wrong. in the case of SocSec and Medicare, most of those people have spent their entire working lives paying in, so really it's getting paid for work they've already done - getting something for something - so to whine about it and call our end of the bargain "entitlements" is odious and smarmy as fuck and divisive and unproductive and i'll call it out every time i fucking see it

[brinstar]

lol doublepost

but can you see a theme here? biggest richest corporations pay negative effective tax rates... SocSec contribution scale capped at $118.5k...

gosh it's almost like a couple thousand people who have way more money than they could ever hope to spend in ten lifetimes don't want anyone else to have anything but scraps, so they use their tremendous economic/political influence to make sure it stays that way

[Lyion]

The problem is every company is not the size GE or Boeing, and our fucked up tax rates cost a lot of jobs, and keep a lot of capital overseas that could be spent here. Like it or not, capitalism is built on revenue and innovation. If we bleed dry our companies then we'll go the way of other countries that were inept and corrupt, which our federal government has proven itself to be in spades.

It also doesn't matter if our GDP is high if we handle our economics like a 21 year old sportstar millionaire, which we currently do. Yes, our entitlements DO matter. Everything matters, and economics is not cut and dried.

Last I cbecked Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, and most of the tech billionaires are DNC leaning, also. All of them are for paying more taxes. Except that doesn't ever end up happening. The more we 'regulate' and have government take overs, the more corruption and control we give to those select few that so many complain about.

[Arlos]

Notice the decrease in the percentage of federal income based on corporate taxes paid. It's basically half now of what it was in the 50s.

Yes, our official corporate tax rate is high, but no one ever actually pays it. As Brin mentioned, some of the largest companies not only pay no taxes, they get subsidies from the government, so their effective tax rate is negative. I hear lots of discussion of a flat tax for individuals, which I do NOT support, but how about a flat tax for businesses? No loopholes, no nothing, just a straight flat tax value that all businesses pay, period. No moving money around overseas, no accounting gimmicks, none of it, just X percent of all revenue.

[brinstar]

The problem is every company is not the size GE or Boeing, and our fucked up tax rates cost a lot of jobs, and keep a lot of capital overseas that could be spent here. Like it or not, capitalism is built on revenue and innovation. If we bleed dry our companies then we'll go the way of other countries that were inept and corrupt, which our federal government has proven itself to be in spades.

It also doesn't matter if we our GDP is high if we handle our economics like a 21 year old sportstar millionaire, which we currently do. Yes, our entitlements DO matter. Everything matters, and economics is not cut and dried.

Last I cbecked Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, and most of the tech billionaires are DNC leaning, also. All of them are for paying more taxes. Except that doesn't ever end up happening. The more we 'regulate' and have government take overs, the more corruption and control we give to those select few that so many complain about.

so your answer is deregulation? lmfao

hey this chemo isn't curing my cancer, i'll try smoking cigarettes

edit: srsanswer

so close the fucking loopholes then. once GE and Boeing actually start PAYING into our system like they're fucking supposed to, suddenly we'll have money everywhere. then we can afford to lower the tax rate that hurts small business. then we can afford to fulfill the deal we made with people who worked their whole lives (and still fuck the phrase "entitlements"). then we can afford to stop borrowing money all the time. then maybe we can have a surplus again - you know, like we did the last time a democratic president DIDN'T take over during a crash lol

[Lyion]

so your answer is deregulation? lmfao

hey this chemo isn't curing my cancer, i'll try smoking cigarettes

Where did I say deregulation is the answer, and what does that have to do with the corporate tax rate being high and our government being hugely corrupt and inept?

I'm for less spending and a simpler tax code, lower corporate taxes with no cronyism or corporate welfare or our Fed choosing companies to give billion dollar grants to haphazardly while we spent 500 billion dollar deficits.

[brinstar]

i'm sorry, so what is

The more we 'regulate' and have government take overs, the more corruption and control we give to those select few that so many complain about.

supposed to mean then if you're NOT arguing for deregulation like so many faux-libertarians like to do?

jesus do you just copy/paste directly from reason.com or what

[Lyion]

My points were pretty easy to decipher. I'm for less central government control, spending, and bureau's. I'm for smart regulation, and want more on 'monopoly' industries, but less where it's impacting small business. I pretty much firmly said what is in place is very bad for small companies, banks, and mom and pop shops.

We have an almost 40% corporate rate. It's terrible. It needs to be much lower. The problem isn't taxes, it's corporate welfare, cronyism, insider deals, and leveraging the global economy to fuck American workers.

The problem is every company is not the size GE or Boeing, and our fucked up tax rates cost a lot of jobs, and keep a lot of capital overseas that could be spent here. Like it or not, capitalism is built on revenue and innovation. If we bleed dry our companies then we'll go the way of other countries that were inept and corrupt, which our federal government has proven itself to be in spades.

Your points are actually close to what my points are, honestly. Our tax system is fucked up. Our central government picks winners. Regulation is done in a manner that benefits insiders and lobbyists.

[Tossica]

Sounds like we need Bernie.

[brinstar]

bernie forever

[Lyion]

Sounds like we need Bernie.

Sadly, the executive branch does not change the laws or have anything to do with our tax code or budget, as so many in our country seem to ignore
What we really need are term limits and more groups worried about our country and less about handouts or freebees.


In relation to offshore profits, I'll be curious if this amounts to anything. Probably not.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/ ... 0V20151010

The Group of 20 major economies have endorsed a package of measures to tackle corporate tax avoidance, but questions remain about whether countries will follow through on the plans or leave loopholes multinationals can exploit.

G20 finance ministers agreed to back proposals drawn up by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) which aim to shake up rules dating back almost a century that govern taxation of profits from international commerce.

The ministers reached the agreement against a backdrop of concern about weak economic growth, tight government finances and media reports on the tax structuring used by companies including Starbucks and Google that have spurred public anger in Europe and the United States in recent years over tax avoidance.

"This is a reaction of people who cannot stand anymore that they pay their fair share of taxes, that they contribute to fiscal consolidation while companies, especially multinationals, can avoid tax," European Economic Affairs Commissioner Pierre Moscovici told Reuters.

The practise of so-called Base Erosion and Profit Shifting (BEPS) has allowed companies to move profits out of the countries where money is earned and into jurisdictions such as Luxembourg, Ireland or Bermuda that do not tax them.

The agreement endorsed by the G20 ministers late on Thursday aims to close the gaps in existing international rules.

[brinstar]

great ideas, but i'll believe it when it happens

sadly you are right about the POTUS though - even if bernie is swept into office with 90% national voter support, he will still have to deal with a squad of terrorist shitbags intent on burning the govt down

i speak of course of the House Freedom Caucus (did you think i meant ISIS or al-Qaeda? lulz)

[Kaemon]

They're all shitbags.

The ones that truly care for this country are pushed aside or are publicized as nut's.

I'm all for Term limits. Fuck this career mongers.

I'm for one in favor of closing loopholes, but at the same time make it enticing for corporations to manufacture here. Keep the Taxes enticing, but also have huge tariffs on American/all corporations that decide to continue to manufacture out of country that make it ridiculously impossible to sell their product at a reasonable price.

Arlos, you cannot compare the corporate tax in the 50's vs. corporate tax of today. In the 50's there weren't many products if any that said Made in China, Taiwan, India, etc., etc.. There was no manufacturing in those counties at the time. When your Levi's are now made in China and the still sell at $50 - $100 bucks a pop because of their name. We have a problem.

I'm also for Universal Healthcare, but we definitely need to revamp pharmaceuticals and regulate them on how much they can charge. Just recently Turning Pharmaceuticals raised their HIV/Aids medicine from 13.50 to $750. I say do what Thailand did, if you price gouge us, we'll take away the licensing and patent so generics can sell the drug at a cheaper rate.

[brinstar]

^ not bad