Building new system... need opinion

[Diekan]

I have decided to build a new system, since my old one is no longer working...

Going through Pricewatch.com I have priced a new system at around 800 dollars... that's including all shipping and handling.

I am looking at:

Pentium 4 3.2 GHz CPU, 200 gig Maxtor HD, G-Force fx 256 meg card, Toshiba DVD burner, 1 gig of Kingston RAM... and of course all the other stuff (e.g 10/100 NIC and so on).

That sound like a reasonable price for a system as such?

How is Pricewatch lately? The last I used it was years ago and I had no problems then, but things change...

[Rotj]

Just a lil query regarding the RPM of the Maxtor and what version of the Geforce FX..but the rest of it looks very nice.

[Diekan]

that would be 7200 on the HD and the vid card is a G-Force fx 5800

but my question is whether or not that is a decent price for the whole thing, or are there cheaper places that I can buy the parts I need. This system has to enough to run EQ2...

I am not going to spend 2 grand on a PC from a company like Dell, Gateway, Compaq and the others only to get generic parts (sept for the CPU and vid card) and a shitload of software I'll never use...not to mention tech support that doesnt any more than I do...

That's why I decided to build another system... I built the previous one a few years ago and never really had a problem with it - until the MB fried...

By building it myself I know I am getting only name brand parts... by well established companies that aren't going to be out of business tomorrow.

It's just that I have built anything recently, nor have I been keeping up to date on the prices of parts.... so, that's why I am asking if 800 is to much, or a good price for all the parts I need.

[Harrison]

256 video card is overkill, Ive yet to notice a difference when using a card with it compared to its 128 counterpart. You could get a higher quality card for the same price with more features and support for newer tech.

As for the HD, Id get a seagate (out of all the hard drives Ive had not one of my seagates has crashed, cant say the same for the other 10 or so maxtor's)

Theyre also about half as loud. Literally.

Ram is fine.

What MB?

[Diekan]

I actually don't know who makes the MB I think it's Soyo (which is good), but I'll have to check... it's a CPU MB combo...

The vid card (according to pricewatch) is around 100 bucks, I might as well get the extra memory while I am building it now... besides G-Force cards have always been fairly decent gaming cards all in all.

Yeah I like Seagate too, more than Maxtor actually - But I wanna keep the cost down a min... I know the WD and the Seagates are a little more costly than the Maxtors. I've used Maxtors a lot and have never had any issues with them.

[Martrae]

Check with a local computer shop and see what they can do for you.

[Harrison]

Soyo is good.

If it's a geforce at $100, Im guessing it's an FX5200 or such.

Never had one of the early FX series cards, but Ive also not heard anything bad about them. You'll want to OC it though for the performance boost~

[Diekan]

Oh Martae I can build it myself with ease, I more than have the know-how. I am just interested in people's opinions on whether or not what I am paying for the parts is either more than I should be, or if it's a pretty good deal.

[Harrison]

If youre pushing for price, Id get an AMD 3200+ 400FSB (cheaper than pentium by a decent chunk)

And put that extra 100$ or so into a kickass video card. (I could be wrong but a quick comparison showed me $100 difference between the 3200 and the P4 3.2)

[Martrae]

I didn't mean that you couldn't, but sometimes they can come up with package deals or parts that are cheaper than you can find elsewhere.

A good shop is also a fount of information on what's new and upcoming.

[Minrott]

Athlon XP 3000+ with fan and heatsink $146

Abit AN7 nForce2 motherboard, 400FSB, Dual DDR400, $86

Corsair VS1GBKIT400 1GB Kit DDR400 PC3200 $166

Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 ST3160023A 160GB Ultra ATA/100 7200RPM Hard Drive w/8MB Buffer $103

ATI Radeon 9800 PRO AGP 8X 128MB DDR Video Card $220

$721 total, free second day air shipping. Just need a psu and case, dunno if that was in your original budget or not.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com

[Diekan]

I thought I read some where that Pentiums dedicated more processing to math functions which made them *better* suited for gaming machines, where AMD's were fairly even with logic and math fuctionality in their processors.

I can't remember the exact article now, but I think it was on Slashdot some time ago....

Anyway, that's why I've been looking at Pentiums... that and they seem to run a lot cooler than AMD's.

However, if they're that much cheaper I might just save myself the money and go with the Athlon instead. I doubt it'll make that much difference really...

Going with the AMD will shave off around 100 bucks alone, which is a good call.

[Rotj]

Yup, go for the AMD imo. And use Finawin's recommendation of dumping that extra $100 into a better video card. You'll have a mean system that will kick ass for some time.

[Harrison]

AMD's DO run hot, but they can take the heat as designed. It takes over 90 celcius to burn out an AMD. Which is tough to get to, trust me.

Even if you shell out say $30 bucks or so and grab a brand new heatsink if youre anal or paranoid about temperature.

The extra 100$ into the video card will definitely be a bigger performance boost. And the most noticeable.

[Lyion]

Spend the extra few bucks and get the NVIDIA 6800 256.

[Diekan]

I bought it, now just have to wait for it to arrive (the parts anyway).

P4 3.2 gig
1 gig Atlas RAM
160 gig Seagate HD 7200
ATI Radeon 9200 256 megs
ASUS MB

Not to bad of a system for only 900 bucks - including all the shipping, handling, fans, cables, Sony CD RW, Floppy drive, 400 watt PS, Case, Sound Blaster card... bla bla bla

I think it was a good deal... Everything together would have cost me more than 1500 if I had bought it already built from a Dell or a Gateway... not to mention there's no promise that I'll only get name brand parts in something prefabed like that....

[Harrison]

Yeah always better to build the system yourself, or at least get them seperate and have a friend piece it together.

You wont have to upgrade anything but your video card for over a year and a half 2 years easily.

The video card in a year will be IMO (if youre a gamer like Im assuming obviously)

[Martrae]

Yeah, all the 'names' are going with integrated parts and shitty power supplies anyway.

[vonkaar]

P4 3.2 gig
1 gig Atlas RAM
160 gig Seagate HD 7200
ATI Radeon 9200 256 megs
ASUS MB

I think it was a good deal... Everything together would have cost me more than 1500 if I had bought it already built from a Dell or a Gateway... not to mention there's no promise that I'll only get name brand parts in something prefabed like that....

Heh... considering that ASUS makes Dell's motherboards... Intel for the CPU... Seagates are often used in a Dell(market price fluctuations) and the video card selection could be chosen at the time of build, you basically DID get exactly what Dell would have used for that $1500 (likely closer to 2k) system. Sooooo... you did good. Although, I'd still have gone with AMD =p.

[Lyion]

P4 3.2 gig
1 gig Atlas RAM
160 gig Seagate HD 7200
ATI Radeon 9200 256 megs
ASUS MB

I think it was a good deal... Everything together would have cost me more than 1500 if I had bought it already built from a Dell or a Gateway... not to mention there's no promise that I'll only get name brand parts in something prefabed like that....

Heh... considering that ASUS makes Dell's motherboards... Intel for the CPU... Seagates are often used in a Dell(market price fluctuations) and the video card selection could be chosen at the time of build, you basically DID get exactly what Dell would have used for that $1500 (likely closer to 2k) system. Sooooo... you did good. Although, I'd still have gone with AMD =p.

Intel > AMD. You done good with that setup. I would still go Dell personally.

The extra 400 spent on the Dell covers the better case, the free shipping, support and repair, Windows XP, and knowing your components are not steaming piles of shit.

I have a Dell Finance account, and for some reason when I buy something, they wait 3-4 months to charge me, which is nice.

[vonkaar]

Shrug, AMD does the same as Intel with less emphasis on megahertz... at less cost. The top performing chip on the market right now is AMD... AMD motherboards are typically cheaper...

Steaming piles of shit is exactly what Dell puts in their systems. Unless you pay the extra cash for a Precision system, the cases are hardly worth $50. The cooling is abysmal... absolutely bare-minimum. The motherboards are stripped down versions of Asus' bottom-of-the-barrel motherboards (they save $1.50 by having the AGP slot 'removed' on the 2400 series Dimension boards). Almost every single component in the system is chosen on a 'bottom-line' emphasis. This is why you don't consistantly see Western Digital drives over Maxtor or Seagate or whatever. One week, you'll get a Maxtor (because it was the cheapest at the time). Next week, it will be a Seagate.

They were one of the first PC manufacturers to outsource their support services to India. Even their production facilities in Round Rock are being downsized in favor of their Mexico plant.

Sooo... having the 'peace of mind' in their service may justify the extra grand, but one should keep in mind what they are paying for with that warranty: Cheapest possible solution.

I'm not a fan of Alienware, but at least with their systems you know exactly what you are getting. Abit motherboard. Western Digital HDD. ATI Video Card. Sony DVD. Antec power-supply... etc. Dell IS a "steaming pile of crap," especially compared to the AVERAGE home-built system.

Dell couldn't touch my benchmarks with their top-of-the-line $6k workstation.

[Harrison]

Yes but you also have the extreme end of the spectrum as far as pushing the limits go.

[Lyion]

Shrug, AMD does the same as Intel with less emphasis on megahertz... at less cost. The top performing chip on the market right now is AMD... AMD motherboards are typically cheaper...

Steaming piles of shit is exactly what Dell puts in their systems. Unless you pay the extra cash for a Precision system, the cases are hardly worth $50. The cooling is abysmal... absolutely bare-minimum. The motherboards are stripped down versions of Asus' bottom-of-the-barrel motherboards (they save $1.50 by having the AGP slot 'removed' on the 2400 series Dimension boards). Almost every single component in the system is chosen on a 'bottom-line' emphasis. This is why you don't consistantly see Western Digital drives over Maxtor or Seagate or whatever. One week, you'll get a Maxtor (because it was the cheapest at the time). Next week, it will be a Seagate.

.

I've bought two Dells, and I've not had an issue in 4 years with them. Prior to that I built my previous 5 systems from the ground up. How many Dells have you owned, Vonk? I know their systems aren't going to compete with a souped up homegrown, but they aren't going to cause any issuues either, I think.

My 4550 bought a year and a half ago with a 9700 Pro, 2.5 P4, 1 Gig RAM was within 100 bucks of me building it, and has done great for me. It benchmarked very close to my friends homegrown system,.

There is very little difference between the HDD manufacturers. Western Digitals in the late 90s when I gave a shit about PC benchmarks had the highest failure rates and were considered shit. /shrug.

The cooling on my Dell 4550 is head and shoulders above my older custom boxes, and so I'm not sure where you are getting your facts from. The CPU has never been hot.

I've had two IBM work PCs that have been real steaming piles of shit. I have friends who buy the latest and greatest whiz bang stuff and spend hours and hours fixing shit. If that's your shtick, more power to ya.

I've spent 0 time fixing my PC since I bought it early last year. My previous Dell required zero intervention, also. I spent under 1200 on it, and with the amount of miles logged, its been well worth it.

I spent 10 years building PCs, from soldering my 286 to building my 386 dx 16 to my 486 and P1 and P2 with SCSI barracuda drives and early soundblaster cards. I have no desire to do it again, especially since the price is within the same range, and if there's an issue I have an easy fix for it.

[vonkaar]

I've bought two Dells, and I've not had an issue in 4 years with them. Prior to that I built my previous 5 systems from the ground up. How many Dells have you owned, Vonk?

Probably close to three thousand. That's all I buy for my client desktop systems. In the workplace, they can't be beaten.

I know their systems aren't going to compete with a souped up homegrown, but they aren't going to cause any issuues either, I think.

Exactly.

The cooling on my Dell 4550 is head and shoulders above my older custom boxes, and so I'm not sure where you are getting your facts from. The CPU has never been hot.

They *barely* meet the ATX cooling standards. Typically, one fan... for both CPU and case cooling. Almost no airflow throughout the case. To make it worse, the HDD is placed at the front of the case, blocking almost all of the 'usual' vents for airflow. Let's heat up the incoming air, shall we? Dell designs their cooling system as CHEAP 1st, SILENCE 9th. Aluminum when the rest of the world uses copper. 20CFM fan when the rest of the world uses 60+. No other case fans and very little venting anyway. Just because you see a shiny green CPU duct, that doesn't mean it's even *adequate* cooling. All of the airflow goes THROUGH the cpu fins, the whole case. Ever wonder why it gets so dusty in there?

Now, this problem doesn't apply specifically to Dell... almost all OEMs go for the inexpensive and silent over the 'real' cooling solutions. HP/Compaq is even worse (although their servers own Dell). I can't even remember the last OEM system I saw that had a decent cooling setup.

You answered your own question in that. NO it can't compete with a home-grown system. On MANY levels. If you put together a shopping list based on specs (3.2Ghz, 1024RAM, 9800pro, 250HDD, DVDr/w etc) and then purchase a Dell that matches those specs. Next, build a system using top-of-the-line equivalents (ex: Corsair vs Inferion RAM). NO modifications to either board... no overclocking. Now benchmark them. The Dell will lose on every test. Aaaand likely, you spent twice as much on the inferior components that were labeled DELL. Now... go out and do another test.. buy Dell's top-of-the-line system. Next, take that same cash and spend it on a DIY pc. Benchmark the two of them (teehee). Dell *might* score within half of the DIY system.

Sooo... what are you paying for? How many times has your Dell broken down? You already answered that... How many times have your DIY PCs broken down? Well, that falls on your technical knowledge. It used to be that the 'few' people that COULD build their own systems posessed sufficient knowledge to troubleshoot their own problems. That's more iffy now, but it's still a decent guage. If Dells were constantly breaking down and you were making use of the warranty, go you. I would guess that 2% of the people that buy a PC from Dell ever make use of their warranty. That justifies a 100% price hike, no?

[Tacks]

F Dell, F DIY I'm lazy. Go to ibuypower