My problems with the upcoming release & Horde issues.

Post by **Lyion** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:27 am

Seguing from our previous discussion, Taxx.

11) Does Blizzard realize that the Horde is still lacking in the fun & fluff department (like the Alliance's vendors that sell holdable flowers, or their master chef vendor that sells many recipes, etc.)?

We do realize that such features are few and far between for the Horde at the moment. While we probably will not get such items in by release, the Horde should receive more attention on this front when we add such things in post-launch.

Tacks · Post by **Tacks** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:36 am

Yeah I saw that enormous post=P I got bored about halfway through. I'm glad they are finally admitting that there's an Alliance bias...now if they'd just recognize they have EVERYTHING better then we'd be ok.

Post by **Lyion** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:44 am

The fact the two factions will not be close to equal at release is a big cause for concern, and leads me to believe they are pushing the product out the door to compete with EQ2.

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:29 am

Horde4eva.

I got my ass kicked by a group of 30s last night.

That sucked.

10sun · Post by **10sun** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:10 pm

Actually... I think its not trying to compete with EQ2 release, but rather rush the EQ2 release, thus forcing Sony to produce another incomplete product, destroying their credibility and reducing market share.

-Adam

Post by **Lyion** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:39 pm

Except Blizzard is releasing theirs incomplete, too.

Horde is nowhere near as good as Alliance.

PVP which is integral will be half baked.

There are many, many large bugs that need to be fixed..

The game is close, but it needs a few more months it cannot get due to EQ2 going out the door. EQ2 will be more stable and have a better launch because they have the MMO experience Blizzard does not.

I'm not saying EQ2 will be a better game, but they have a lot more knowledge about the genre. SOE has 4 MMOs, and knows the game.

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 1:57 pm

WoW beta is WAY more polished then EQ2.

Every MMO that was released did so with bugs.

DAoC was released with 0 end-game content.

Lineage 2 used its player base as beta testers.

Shadowbane...well yea that sucked through and through.

Post by **Lyion** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:09 pm

WOW beta with 2k is one thing. With 100k will be another, Zan.

And you played, what, 4 hours of EQ2? Every person I've talked to who's played EQ2 has had glowing reviews, minus the SOE haters.

The problem is on the release and surviving the onslaught of n00bs and initial push.

Tacks · Post by **Tacks** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:17 pm

WOW beta with 2k is one thing. With 100k will be another, Zan.

Remember this thing called the stress test? The one where none of the servers failed.

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:26 pm

Lyion wrote:And you played, what, 4 hours of EQ2? Every person I've talked to who's played EQ2 has had glowing reviews, minus the SOE haters.

You talked to retards.

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:28 pm

You guys are seriously swallowing blizzards load no matter what, so why argue?

I'll be playing WoW most likely anyways, but I'm not going to sit here on my high horse and say "soe suxorz i luv blizzard"

That just makes you sound like an idiot who doesnt give a shit if the game IS better, just that SOE created it, and therefor you hate it.

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:31 pm

Everyone who has anything to contribute to the conversation please stand up...not so fast Finawin.

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:35 pm

Stop avoiding the fucking conversation.

You know damn well that even if EQ2 shits all over WoW in EVERY respect, youre going to play WoW.

Why?

Because you join the bandwagon of ex-EQ players who spout the "I hate SoE hurr hurr" even if you've NEVER had a problem with them before.

Very close minded, and that's pathetic over a video game. :rofl:

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:38 pm

1) I'm going play WoW because I know its a quality game. You want to know why I know this? Because I played it.

2) I'm not going to play EQ2 because I know its a crappy game. You want to know why I know this? Because I played it.

3) I'm not avoiding any conversation.

4) You're a fag.

Post by **Lyion** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:59 pm

What is your exact complaint with EQ2? It has good quests, the voiceovers look neat, and the tutorial is very good <I've played it>.

It has a better class system than WOW, and the quests are well done.

What exactly is the problem?

While Finawins debating may leave much to be desired, his point that you hate EQ2 simply because it is from Sony is valid.

10sun · Post by **10sun** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 3:26 pm

I won't play it because of the name.

Everquest II.

Plus, the shots from the game that I have seen don't really turn me on.

Plus, I didn't get a beta invite and got one for WoW, which I happen to enjoy quite a bit.

Those are my reasons. I'd give it a chance if I got a beta invite, however as it stands I don't have that.

-Adam

Tacks · Post by **Tacks** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:31 pm

I won't play EQ2 because I'm not investing $500 in upgrades when I can play a game JUST AS GOOD with no upgrades.

Kabakaba · Post by **Kabakaba** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 4:26 pm

Taxx wrote:I won't play EQ2 because I'm not investing $500 in upgrades when I can play a game JUST AS GOOD with no upgrades.

My thought's exactaly i know that i would have to spend 300-500$ just to play EQ2 with my current machine.

Post by **Arlos** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:34 pm

I won't play another SOE game simply because I don't trust them.

I saw the quality of their products go steadily downhill since Kunark. Velious was good, but they promised equality between giant/dragon/dwarf factions that simply wasn't there, period. I saw the absolute godawful steaming pile of rancid ratshit that was Luclin on release. I saw the absolute godawful steaming pile of rancid ratshit that was Luclin throughout the entire life of the expansion. I saw them lie repeatedly about whether zones were done, and I saw them, months after release, give 1 dev 1 week to do the final raid zone of the expansion. I saw them repeat the lying and the artificial blockages in POP, which at least was a step up from Luclin. I saw the horrific failure that was LDON planning, and what the fact of hard limiting any raiding to 36 people did to guilds throughout the game. I saw a little of GoD, and from everything I heard, it was largely a return to the godawful pile of rancid ratshit that charictarized Luclin.

That's just the expansions. I saw their customer service go from not too bad to utter shit. Remember where you actually had a server GM you could get to know, and who knew the environment of the server? Remember Hideaki, Valdelmar, Vinshayr? Great GMs all, especially Valdelmar. Remember actually interacting with the GMs, with them stopping by raids to say hi, or possess dragons to make fun of you? Remember there actually being guides online most of the time, and you could actually get responses? Compare that to POP era, where you could go HOURS without seeing even a single guide, much less a GM. If you had a serious petition, you were fubar.

Now, both of those 2 major issues are entirely SOEs fault, and are utterly independent of MMO knowledge: Expansions were pushed out the door WELL before they were ready, especially Luclin. Support is entirely in the hands of the corporate money people, and they didn't consider it to be something important enough to actually spend money on. From reports, support in SWG is at least as bad. I am supposed to trust that this will somehow magically change for EQ2, once it's past the first month or two, and observation by gaming mags has dropped off?

Lastly, I saw what SOE did for class balance, or more accurately, DIDN'T do. I saw my class, Monk, get utterly and completely destroyed and marginalized by deliberate design decisions. I saw pure melee likewise get more and more marginalized, except for very small and specific roles. The more classes you have, the harder it is to balance them all and to give them unique roles. Given SOE's track record, I wouldn't trust them to balance 3 classes, much less numbers in the teens or higher. Maybe the staff they have for EQ2 is more competant. I doubt it. Now, I know one of the coders, and got to have some early input into mob AI, but that's not enough to get me to play it. I was even offered a beta account more than once, but turned them down.

Blizzard may well screw up WOW, it's entirely possible. They haven't done it before, and are learning as they go. Still, given the choice between trusting my old guildmates, like Ariel, Tigole, etc. who I knew firsthand to be at least reasonably bright and clueful Vs. trusting SOE, well, that's not exactly a tough decision, now is it.

-Arlos

vonkaar · Post by **vonkaar** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 7:12 pm

There were probably 2 or 3 words that Arlos just wrote that I would disagree with.

"that", "them" and "get"

otherwise, he echoes my thoughts precisely.

The Kizzy · Post by **The Kizzy** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 8:29 pm

Very nice post Arlos

Post by **Lyion** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 8:42 pm

I really enjoyed EQ and didn't have any major issues, but I left prior to Luclin in 2001, to play DAOC, another excellent game.

I really didnt experience any of the post Velious expansions, but Kunark and Velious were excellent experiences for me. I was just tired of the PVE thing and left.

I played and loved SWG, personally so that isn't a good example for me. It was a very deep, unique player driven game. It just needs time and content, which are coming. If WOW and EQ2 don't deliver, I'll probably play more SWG.

I don't hate SOE, and I'll play whatever the better game is. Blizzard has a very good product in WOW, and I'm curious if EQ2 will be up to the challenge.

I'm not sure how you can hate a gaming company. Just cancel if there is something one doesn't like....I don't hate Artifact Entertainment or Wolfpack, even though I bought and tried their games...

Aryylas · Post by **Aryylas** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 10:25 am

How can you play a couple hours of an MMORPG and decide it sucks?

There is so much content you would not have seen yet.

10sun · Post by **10sun** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 10:29 am

Its like driving a car. Give yourself time to become acclimated to it and if the controls don't suit you and the performance is lackluster, then return it to the dealer.

-Adam

Aryylas · Post by **Aryylas** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 12:21 pm

Bad analogy imo.