What was the deciding factor?

[Martrae]

The exit polls were wrong down the line. Either they only polled in inner cities or people lied just to mess with the pollsters. (I know I would have )

[Lyion]

We have record turnout, massive new voting blocs and a very energized base on each side. After such a huge voter turnout, including record numbers of new voters, I find your post pretty hypocritical.

Try to take the high ground, k?

The fact self serving celebrities and entertainers are out pushing people to vote, with an agenda that many young people didn't share should surprise nobody.

Also, I'd like to know how you got the 1 in 10 number.

[Langston]

Exit polls should be done away with. They're very rarely accurate and it could be tremendously misleading for voters in later time zones. Remember the debacle of calling Florida before the panhandle had closed voting?

[Phantomfist]

About your original question. Diekan was very precise in his analysis. Particularly this point:

They’ll see Kerry as being another rich bastard who looks down upon the working class… now not that they already thought this to begin with, but her comments just re-enforced it altogether.

Kerry to me always sounded and had the mannerisms of someone who finds the lower class downright disgusting to deal with. He reminds of the worst of the worst among the Royals in England.

Towards the end, he did come across much better. Whoever his acting coach(s) was, they deserve a huge pat on the back!

Kerry's consent reminders to all of us that he was a *W*A*R* *H*E*R*O* also hurt him badly. Had he played it smart and waited for reporters to ask the questions he knew they would ask about his time in 'Nam, it's unlikely that any of the controversy would have surfaced. Especially if he kept his answers short and sweet while reminding the reporters that that was a long time ago and is irrelevent to the election. Instead of looking like a braggart willing to do anything to get elected, he would have come across as a very humble man.

Not having done anything substantial in the Senate didn't help him, either. The shining moment in his Senate career seems to be some bill he authored celebrating dolphins or some such thing.

Then there was his poor choice of a running mate. The DNC loves to pretend they are the "big tent" party. The true "party of the people" while the GOP is the party of rich white guys. But when people, especially young would-be voters, look at who the DNC have in positions of power, it's almost all rich white guys. And who did Kerry pick as his running mate?
A rich white guy.

I personally give Mondale a lot of credit for picking the first woman of a major political party to run as VP. If not for Ferraro, Mondale never would have done as well as he did, in my opinion. But not even she could save that guy from the sound thrashing Reagan gave him.

[Tacks]

Obama? He's too new to be a candidate but I could definately see it in the future. He's only 43 years old.

PA ALMOST got Arlen Spector out of office...fuck that corrupt asshole

[Lyion]

Exit polls should be done away with. They're very rarely accurate and it could be tremendously misleading for voters in later time zones. Remember the debacle of calling Florida before the panhandle had closed voting?

Exit polls are fine, but stations should not keep using them as canonical evidence an election will go one way or another.

[Tacks]

Then there was his poor choice of a running mate. The DNC loves to pretend they are the "big tent" party. The true "party of the people" while the GOP is the party of rich white guys. But when people, especially young would-be voters, look at who the DNC have in positions of power, it's almost all rich white guys. And who did Kerry pick as his running mate?
A rich white guy.

Edwards is a self-made man though. He didn't inherit money and he isn't mooching off his wife. Whatever he made, he made himself. I would have much rather voted for Edwards for president then Kerry.

[Lyion]

Then there was his poor choice of a running mate. The DNC loves to pretend they are the "big tent" party. The true "party of the people" while the GOP is the party of rich white guys. But when people, especially young would-be voters, look at who the DNC have in positions of power, it's almost all rich white guys. And who did Kerry pick as his running mate?
A rich white guy.

Edwards is a self-made man though. He didn't inherit money and he isn't mooching off his wife. Whatever he made, he made himself. I would have much rather voted for Edwards for president then Kerry.

I'm still completely amazed Kerry beat Edwards and Dean. I like John Edwards, and I think his future is definitely not over. He's a contender in 2008.

[Martrae]

He picked Edwards because he's a pretty boy and was supposed to offset the "Lurch" syndrome.

Someone said once it's always the guy with the better hair that wins. Probably why the last 2 elections have been so close.

[Phantomfist]

Determining the 'deciding factor' is probably the easiest that it's been in many years...

The youth didn't turn out. One in TEN people 25 and under voted.

I'm fucking disgusted with my country right now.

I blame:

[vonkaar]

We have record turnout, massive new voting blocs and a very energized base on each side. After such a huge voter turnout, including record numbers of new voters, I find your post pretty hypocritical.
Also, I'd like to know how you got the 1 in 10 number.

CNN, MSN and my own Dallasnews reports 1 in 10.

Do you need to google hypocrisy? Can you please enlighten me on how I'm being a hypocrite?

(A.) 18-25 makes up a pretty fucking large portion of the 'could-be' voting base. We'll call this the 'youth'.

(B.) By almost every poll, the average 'youth' voted in favor of Kerry over Bush.

(C.) The 'youth' had, by far, the lowest turnout of the election.

If we assume that A and B are true and C was completely reversed... would you call that a god damned deciding factor??

If you are telling me to discard anything that the exit polls say, then you 'too' have to discard ANY opinionated conclusion. Hell, the fucking QUESTION can't be answered without some sort of speculation. What kind of answer do you want? The 'deciding factor' was 'not enough negros'? It's fucking speculation! At least I'm backing up MY so-called hypocritical answer with the findings of the supposedly unbiased media. If you want me to back down and give you the kindergarten response that you can understand, I'll say... "The deciding factor was the O'Reily Factor." Boom.

[vonkaar]

Determining the 'deciding factor' is probably the easiest that it's been in many years...

The youth didn't turn out. One in TEN people 25 and under voted.

I'm fucking disgusted with my country right now.

I blame:

Thank you Phantomfist... that's the kind of answer I think they are looking for.

[Scoota McGee]

Kids now days are slacker punks whose innate sense of self entitlement makes them too aloof to be bothered with things like civic duty… Big surprise they didn’t vote.

[Langston]

Let me try to nudge the debate in a different direction, Vonkaar - why do you think the young voters did NOT turn out? What was the factors there?

[Lyion]

We have record turnout, massive new voting blocs and a very energized base on each side. After such a huge voter turnout, including record numbers of new voters, I find your post pretty hypocritical.
Also, I'd like to know how you got the 1 in 10 number.

CNN, MSN and my own Dallasnews reports 1 in 10.

Do you need to google hypocrisy? Can you please enlighten me on how I'm being a hypocrite?

[

You hate your country and bitch about a single demographic.

Yet young people had higher voting turnout and more activity than before, and we have record numbers of voters.

That sir is hypocritical.

[Berton]

Vonkaar,

Your orignal statement was a shotgun blast at the country, not at the youth of the nation. The country turned out in droves in this election. The youth, however, were a virtual no-show. I think that was the point Lyion was trying to get across.

As far as Kerry goes..

His wife was not a positive factor for him. Laura Bush beats her out for First-Lady hands down. Not that anyone should vote based on the candidates wife, unfortunately some do.

He never really solidified his platform just as Bush charged. He didn't "flip-flop" technically durring the campaign. I never really could get a bead on what he was going to do to fix all the things he said were broken.


This goes along with my last point... I felt Kerry spent too much time being anti-Bush and not near enough time being pro-Kerry.

The Vietnam shit canceled each other out IMO. People got past that in September and focused on their real concerns.. Iraq and the economy and whatnot.

By all rights Kerry should have won this with all the negative Bush attitude out there. I think he lost it more than Bush won.

The smart thing for the Dems to do now is bow gracefully and back off, regroup and start preparing for the 2006 mid-term elections. This thing is over, they need to admit it fast and save face.

[Langston]

The smart thing for the Dems to do now is bow gracefully and back off, regroup and start preparing for the 2006 mid-term elections. This thing is over, they need to admit it fast and save face.

The smart thing, yes... but it won't happen. Kerry stated before the election that he had a gaggle of lawyers prepared to contest this election for as long as it took. He won't back down... I just don't see it happening.

[Lyion]

I can't see Kerry going apeshit like Gore. He's a smarter guy, and still covets his senate seat in Mass.

I guess it depends if he trusts his advisors, or Terry McAuliffe.

[vonkaar]

I'm disgusted that the youth of the country, those that are arguably going to feel the brunt of this election, didn't show up. 2% gain in 18-25 yet 12% for 25-32? 15% for 32-40? Wow, let's praise the god damned youth for the 2% gain. Way to go dumbfucks. I'm disgusted. Maybe I should have said, "I'm disgusted with the youth of this country." My feelings would have been expressed just as strongly. However, in other ways outside the election, I'm equally disgusted with the country. I'm moving to Nepal.

Berton, I agree with you on those final points. I believe that Kerry sold the product better than Bush but focused waaaay too much on the I'm not Bush bit. I think that the true Bush-haters bought this but the swing demographic wanted more. Dean offered that, but the in-fighting of the dumbfuck Democratic party prevented Dean from becoming a serious candidate. Way to go, assholes.

[DangerPaul]

I'm moving to Nepal.

we will open a bar and do shots with Indiana Jones !

[Phantomfist]

Berton, I agree with you on those final points. I believe that Kerry sold the product better than Bush but focused waaaay too much on the I'm not Bush bit. I think that the true Bush-haters bought this but the swing demographic wanted more. Dean offered that, but the in-fighting of the dumbfuck Democratic party prevented Dean from becoming a serious candidate. Way to go, assholes.

Dean was the DNC's worst nightmare because they didn't have any of their meat hooks in him. No puppet strings attached his back.

I think Kerry being a filthy rich guy who could afford to spend a lot of cash was the other reason the DNC did everything they could to get rid of Dean.

I can't say with all honesty that I would have voted for Dean but he was far and above a better candidate than Kerry could ever hope to be. Dean really did get stuff done as Governor

[Lyion]

I'm moving to Nepal.

we will open a bar and do shots with Indiana Jones !

Insert election analogy below, with exit poll joke:

[Reynaldo]

Alot of the youth are keyboard commandos that spew hate and malcontent behind the veil of anonymity of the internet and are too pussy to actually go get stuff done in RL. Thats why you see sites like these, fark.com etc astonished that Bush won after sucking on Michael Moore peni and having overwhelming anti-Bush support.

[leah]

lyion i don't think that hypocritical means what you think it does.

[Tacks]

Yeah, I don't understand how he's being hypocritical. Him being hypocritical would be if he hadn't voted.