namelesstavern.net

Ok, first why do you direct this at me? You honestly know nothing of my situation or life, really. I stated an opinion. It'd be nice if you did the same. The fact I have a big 401k and have cleared a lot of money for the same company over the last 10 years does not mean things are swimming, as you seem to think they are. Many others have lost their jobs due to this global outsourcing with no valid reason, except the other corporate jones' are doing the same.

Your second paragraph is almost contextually identical to Gordon Gecko from Wall Street. Forgive me if I disagree and feel that greed is not good when it is solely due to acclimation of wealth. That wealth is based on our economy, as is your and my standard of living. If we decimate the middle class, which will crush the housing market, and slide to the revenue that we depend on than suddenly 'wealth' will be meaningless as the dollar will be worthless.


There is plenty of proof that moving jobs overseas hurts Americans. It degrades the middle class and will slowly drain both the economy and the talent we have here.

I believe we need to have regulations in place, or at least safeguards to disallow state and federal contracts based on outsourcing. If a company wants to outsource, fine. Those billion dollar government contracts need to be given to other companies that aren't paying for American workers. ASAFP.

Lyion it was not pointed at you, sorry if it seemed to be directed that way.

It was more of my being sarcastic and playing devils advocate.

I agree with most of your thoughts but know it won't change anything.

For anything to change in this country, it takes a BIG hit to the middle class.

When was the last big financial hit to the middle class, I mean BIG hit. The great depression perhaps? The gas shortage back when I was a kid? Not enough people are hurting and until the perception or reality exposes this point, not one "rich" person is going to change anything. You and I both know the rich call the shots so until they feel it in the pocket book, nothing will change.

It will take a lot more than another 100k workers to lose their job.

That is why I generally post crap like "I hope gas gets to 5.00 a gal.". The only thing we worship is money and until money is too hard to get for a majority (or near majority), nothing will be done about this problem. Worse yet, by that time it will be too late as too much will have been lost.

A lot of the widening gap between the rich and the middle class can be laid at the feet of the GOP economic policies. Who do you think benefits from slashing the capital gains tax rate? Not most middle class, I assure you. Who do you think benefits from the removal of income tax from dividend income? How many middle class people do YOU know who don't work and live off investment income? Again, not many, but lots of the uber-wealthy do.

Just look at the tax cuts enacted over the last 6 years. While it's true, the middle class got their taxes lowered somewhat, we're talking a relatively small reduction. Compare that to how much the uber-rich are saving now compared to before. The difference is staggering.

Combine that with economic policy that rewards companies who outsource by giving them tax breaks for doing so, and a removal of restrictions on transferring foreign-based income intot he US, and of course they're going to outsource everything regardless of the long-term consequences, because most businesses only give a shit about THIS quarter, and maybe the one after it. It's sad, really.

I honestly feel that during Bush's time in office that he and the rest of the GOP have done more to harm the middle class than had been done in decades previous. This happened before back in the 20s, actually. It's just that back then, there were politicians willing to take on the rich and get them to pay their fair share, and institute rules that amped up the middle classes at the expense of the uber-rich. Now, all the politicians ARE uber-rich, so they're sure as fuck not going to do anything similar, no matter how necessary it might be.

-Arlos

And I bet you shop at Walmart.

No, I avoid the place like the plague. Seriously, I think I've been inside one like twice in my entire life.

-Arlos

Good for you. And you've got a Chevy, Ford, or GMC vehicle yes?

Nope, I drive an Audi. Foreign company, which is only to be expected to have its main operations overseas. Big difference than a US company killing off tens of thousands of jobs here to send them to southeast asia somewhere.

-Arlos

The car argumen doesn't work anymore. I drive a Nissan that was built in Tennessee.

Tossica wrote:The car argumen doesn't work anymore. I drive a Nissan that was built in Tennessee.

but where did the parts come from?

Hondas may be built in Ohio, but quite a bit of the parts come from overseas.

-Adam

10sun, all the parts damn near come from alien nations though, that is the problem, nothing is 100% american anymore in the auto-realm.

10sun wrote:

Tossica wrote:The car argumen doesn't work anymore. I drive a Nissan that was built in Tennessee.

but where did the parts come from?

Hondas may be built in Ohio, but quite a bit of the parts come from overseas.

-Adam

a lot of american car parts are made outside of the us too.

Sorry for the dash of cluelessness, Clakar. I figured you were speaking generally, afterwards.

Arlos, stop making it a political game. The DNC is in bed with the unions and wants higher taxes. Neither of those things is good for the American worker. They care more for their Lawyer friends than for the average tech worker. In case you haven't noticed, the congress has not had a supermajority in a long time. The policies coming from there are agreed upon by both parties, which explains why they are bloated.

The problem is we need to make this a political issue. Currently, neither party is on the American workers side, political rhetoric aside. That needs to change.

lyion wrote:Sorry for the dash of cluelessness, Clakar. I figured you were speaking generally, afterwards.

Arlos, stop making it a political game. The DNC is in bed with the unions and wants higher taxes. Neither of those things is good for the American worker. They care more for their Lawyer friends than for the average tech worker. In case you haven't noticed, the congress has not had a supermajority in a long time. The policies coming from there are agreed upon by both parties, which explains why they are bloated.

The problem is we need to make this a political issue. Currently, neither party is on the American workers side, political rhetoric aside. That needs to change.

this i have to agree with. we are in a vicious circule. the DNC wants to raise taxes and the GOP spends money like its all monopoly money. NEITHER side give a shit about the middle class.

Yamori wrote:Is it the fault of these companies that it costs about 5x more to hire and pay American workers than it does for Chinese or Indians?

We should be yelling at the politicians that have made this situation what it is by messing so much with the economy.. With nearly 50% taxes on wages (huge cost of living and minimum wage needs bump), minions of accountants needed for taxes (increased number of employees needed for US companies), workers posing a perpetual risk for legal liability via harrassment and wrongful termination suits, and government induced inflation (paper money with no backing being printed at an ever increasing rate, artificially raised cost of living due to forced wage-fixing collusion with unions, ect..) - is it really the fault of these big companies to be moving their business somewhere cheaper? :/

Doesn't it strike anyone else as odd that (what, $2 an hour?) is a living wage for people in other countries?

That's a decent observation. The American worker demands higher wages because living in the US is fucking expensive. Greed rules the land and people / companies / businesses will fuck you out of ever nickel they can.

Land is over priced, rent is far too high, gas is rediculous, hell even a loaf of bread costs more than it really should.

Big companies like IBM are going to do whatever they can to increase their bottom line even more. If that means fucking over the very country that allowed them to be successful... they'll do it. This is why I hate corp America as much as I do and why I take great pleasure in seeing a major company being brought to its knees and CEOs being sentenced to life in prison.