NBA TALK - 2005/2006

[xaoshaen]

1. San Antonio
2. Houston
3. Phoenix
4. Dallas
5. Denver
6. Seattle
7. Sacramento
8. Minnesota
9. LA Lakers
10. Memphis
11. Golden State
12. LA Clippers
13. Utah
14. Portland
15. New Orleans

I'd say Seattle's way too high on that list. I don't see them in the playoffs this year, in a conference where too many teams have gotten better while the Sonics have gotten worse. I think people are underrating Utah, much as they overrated them last year and underrated them in '03-'04. If they get a full season out of Kirilenko, I think they have a good shot at the playoffs.

[Zanchief]

I overrated Utah last year so I'm not commenting this year.

[xaoshaen]

I overrated Utah last year so I'm not commenting this year.

I think we all did, though nobody could have anticipated losing Kirilenko for such a significant portion of the season. Sloan's got 'Tag back this year though, so watch out!

[Zanchief]

I overrated Utah last year so I'm not commenting this year.

I think we all did, though nobody could have anticipated losing Kirilenko for such a significant portion of the season. Sloan's got 'Tag back this year though, so watch out!

HAHAHA

[Malluas]

yea after the kings gettin Rahim and Bonzi gotta put Kings probably top 4 IF those 2 pieces work out.

[vonkaar]

The team that won the Michael Finley Sweepstakes is the same team that just won an NBA championship.


Finley told ESPN.com on Wednesday that he has chosen to sign with the San Antonio Spurs, spurning a richer offer from the Miami Heat and the lure of an emotional return to the Phoenix Suns to reunite with close friend Steve Nash.




Hey Dallas, Michael Finley is heading to your conference rivals.The Dallas Mavericks tried for weeks to move Finley to an Eastern Conference team to prevent him from joining the Spurs or the Suns. When it couldn't swing a trade before the Aug. 15 deadline to exercise the NBA's new amnesty clause, Dallas reluctantly waived the two-time All-Star, making Finley an unrestricted free agent and the target of an intense two-week courtship that also involved the Detroit Pistons and Minnesota Timberwolves.


Miami's Pat Riley, Phoenix's Amare Stoudemire and Minnesota's Kevin Garnett were among the big names to fly to Chicago last week to make face-to-face pitches to Finley. In the end, he went with the team that sent a one-man delegation -- Spurs coach Gregg Popovich -- to Finley's hometown.


The complete structure of the deal with San Antonio hasn't been finalized, including the length of the contract, but Finley will receive a starting salary of roughly $2.5 million this season.


"To be a part of a championship team, I'm excited," Finley said. "This is the closest I've ever been to a championship. I'm looking forward to the challenge of helping this team repeat."


Asked why he picked the Spurs, Finley said: "In a nutshell, they're already a championship team but they have room for improvement. And I feel my game can help them in the areas where they need improvement."


Landing Finley, 32, completes an impressive summer haul for the Spurs, who felt a need to be as aggressive as they've ever been in free agency after struggling to holds leads of 2-0 and 3-2 over Detroit in a taut-as-possible NBA Finals. They expect Finley to supply off-the-bench punch and a reliable 3-point stroke as the third wing of a swing trio that features All-Star guard Manu Ginobili and defensive specialist Bruce Bowen.


Since free agency began July 1, San Antonio has also re-signed playoff hero Robert Horry, added wily Argentinean post man Fabricio Oberto to the frontcourt rotation and Monday signed fiery veteran point guard Nick Van Exel, Finley's former Dallas teammate.


Popovich's foremost challenge next season will be massaging playing time and egos with a roster far deeper than the Spurs typically carry. It remains to be seen, for starters, what role remains for Brent Barry, who was San Antonio's marquee newcomer last summer.


Yet it's a challenge Popovich welcomes, after lengthy struggles to find a bench spark in the wake of Ginobili's emergence and knowing that the Spurs' perimeter shooting could use an upgrade to capitalize on the ability of Tim Duncan and Ginobili to collapse defenses. It's believed that Van Exel, like Horry, isn't interested in heavy minutes during the regular season and wants badly to fit in with the Spurs for a shot at a championship. It was also clear during the playoffs that San Antonio could use a playoff-tested alternative at point guard to the up-and-down Tony Parker, whose only backup last season was untested rookie Beno Udrih.


Missing out on Finley, meanwhile, comes as a blow to the Suns more than any other spurned suitor. With Nash as lead recruiter, and banking on Finley's fond feelings for the desert after starting his career there in 1995, Phoenix was hoping to land the 10-year veteran to start him in the guard slot vacated by Joe Johnson. Finley would have joined Raja Bell, Boris Diaw and the returning Jim Jackson in a group approach to replacing Johnson.


The Suns, though, could only offer Finley a veteran minimum salary of $1.1 million for next season. Failing to land Finley doesn't necessarily knock Phoenix from its top-two perch in the West, after the Suns made their own series of roster tweaks, but figures to make it tougher for them to close the gap on the team that knocked Phoenix out in last spring's Western Conference finals.

“ In a nutshell, they're already a championship team but they have room for improvement. And I feel my game can help them in the areas where they need improvement. ”
— Michael Finley on why he chose the Spurs
The Heat, widely regarded as the favorites in the Finley chase, were offering a starting salary at the full mid-level exception ($5 million) and the chance to team with Shaquille O'Neal and Dwyane Wade. Yet with the Heat already having added Antoine Walker, Jason Williams and James Posey in a five-team trade last month, Finley ultimately decided to pass on seeing how he'd fit into that mix. Instead he joins a club known for meshing quickly, with Duncan serving as the only constant on three very different championship teams.


Finley's decision will also come as a blow to the Mavericks and particularly star forward Dirk Nowitzki, who with Finley and Nash formed what was known in Dallas as a close-like-brothers Big Three. The Mavericks didn't want to see Finley follow Nash to Phoenix, but they were rooting against San Antonio, too, hoping their former face of the franchise would choose Miami or Detroit after the fruitless trade attempts.


The Mavericks decided they had to waive Finley because the amnesty clause will spare Dallas future luxury-tax payments on the nearly $52 million it still owes him. Mavericks owner Mark Cuban estimates the total savings over the next three seasons to be closer to $90 million, because Finley will receive his remaining Dallas salary in annual installments of less than $5 million.

forget about it...

Seriously... this is the 1997 Bulls...

[Susvain]

god damn u vonk i was just ganna post that,

Celtics are getting MAH BOY DAN DICKAU also!!!

[Malluas]

i dont think the spurs will win again. Just a hunch.

Not sure how much finley will help. he will be a back up SG or SF? either way you have bowen and Manu who also play those positions and use up alot of minutes.

[Rotj]

im inclined to concede the title to san antonio already ;*(

[Zanchief]

Bowen plays 3 and Pop loves having Manu come off the bench. Finley will start for the Spurs and they will win again.

[vonkaar]

Furthermore... Bowen's NEVER been regarded as a starter. Hell, they had fucking Turko play 3 over Bowen 2 years ago.

Parker / Udrih
Finley / Barry / Nick
Manu / Bowen
Duncan / Mohammed
Rasho / Mohammed / Shawn Bradley

[Zanchief]

I think Bowen and Nazr will start, but you could very well be right, Vonk.

[vonkaar]

Well from what I just read, Rasho won't even be on the roster next year...

[Zanchief]

...if they can find someone to take his contract.

Rumor around these parts is he MIGHT be shipped to TO for contracts and Eric Williams.

[vonkaar]

heh... when I saw TO I first thought...
Rasho for Terrell Owens.
neato

[vonkaar]

Seller's Remorse?
Fin & Nick Join SA Harem


By Mike Fisher -- DallasBasketball.com
Imagine Michael Finley as your ex-girlfriend.
You put her to the curb for good reasons. You two didn't "fit'' anymore. There was no future. Girl was expensive! And she didn't, you know, perform like she used to.
But then she gets a new boyfriend. And it's HIM. Your rival. Your nemesis. Your Lois Lane is now going out with your Lex Luthor!
And you have "seller's remorse.''
FISH ON RADIO
DB.COM BOARDS
We're going to get over this. Michael Finley, a face-of-the-franchise guy in Dallas, is now a San Antonio Spur. So is another of your old exes, Nick Van Exel. (What's this nemesis of yours running down there, a harem?)
Forget for a moment that the Spurs are more loaded than ever, with flashy free agents Finley and Van Exel taking spots on their bench, joining a roster that already features the game's best player in Tim Duncan, an emerging superstar in Manu Ginobili, a standout point guard in Tony Parker, an ace defender in Bruce Bowen, a playoff go-to-guy in Robert Horry and maybe the NBA's best coach in Gregg Popovich.
Forget for a moment, too, that Finley and Nick aren't what they were, that this isn't 2002, that neither of them is likely to get the sort of minutes that would allow them to be the 20-ppg guys they once were -- and that if they ever get that sort of burn, they're likely to be exposed as the down-side-of-their-career players the Mavs believe them to be.
It still hurts. Almost makes you want to "drunk dial'' Michael, doesn't it?
(Sidebar issue: I had a nightmare last night. Nash was playing for the Suns. Fin was playing for the Spurs. Dirk was playing for the Lakers. J-Ho was playing for the Rockets. Aguirre, Harper and Blackman were playing for the Sonics, T'Wolves and Blazers. And in none of those move-outs did we get anything back. A nightmare, I tell ya.)
Unless you assume that Finley's game has so slipped that it's skidded over the end of the earth, San Antonio is the exact wrong place for him -- if you are a Dallas fan. He is in a prime position to hurt the Mavs, in large part because he'll play a small part. Unlike in Phoenix, where the Suns offered him a starting job, Finley and Nick will be put in positions where they can succeed. Ask Finley to drive, or play defense, or load up on 40 minutes a game? Nope. Do that, you'll see the slippage. Ask Finley to be a jump shooter waiting for the kickout pass from a double-teamed Duncan? Yeah, he can do that. ... and if he misses a few shots, Pop buries him on the bench until tommorow.
Said Popovich: "I was very blunt with him about this being a bench situation, so he knew the lay of the land. I'm thrilled he came because he, on his own, decided what to do. I honestly felt that he might choose other situations, for a variety of reasons. When we got the word he was coming to San Antonio, I felt we were very fortunate."
It's interesting, by the way, that while other teams put on flashy recruiting shows, SA simply sent Pop to Chicago for a meeting. There is no right way or wrong way to recruit guys, I always say, but there is a Duncan Way. The coach comes to your home, offers you a chance to play with Duncan, shakes your hand and leaves.
And you sign with the Spurs.
"We didn't send mariachi bands or birthday cards or breakfast in bed," Popovich said. "I talked to him in Chicago and said, 'If you come with us we want it to be for the right reasons and do it the way we do it. If you don't come, you don't come.'
Spoken like a playa with a full dance card. Which takes us back to the girlfriend scenario. Check out two quotes.
One, from the guy who kicked the chick out:
Said Mavs owner Mark Cuban: "I wish Mike all the best off the court. As always, I hope the Spurs lose 82 games."
Sounds like any other guy who just went through a breakup, right?
Two, from the guy who just got the girl(s):
Both Finley and Van Exel checked in with Duncan for his thoughts before they made their decision. Duncan told NVE, "We would love to have you. ... but we don't need you."
Spoken like the new boyfriend who is running a dang harem, right?

[Jirig]

lol. Grats Spurs '06 champions... I'd like to thank everyone who lost.

[xaoshaen]

Eh, maybe. I'm not convinced that adding Van Exel and Finley have locked up anything for the Spurs. Udrih, in limited minutes, was more effective than Van Exel was last year, particularly on defense. His experience in the playoffs may be beneficial, but as we saw last year with Barry, if you can't keep up on defense, you won't get many minutes under Popovich. I'd expect Van Exel to be the third point guard on the team, primarily useful as injury insurance.

Finley is likely to take the minutes that Brown or Barry would have taken. He'd be an upgrade over the 2005 version of Barry, but Bones was actually more effective than Finley the two previous years. Again, it will largely come down to whether or not Finley can play effective defense, something he's not really known for. What Finley does provide are essentially the same things Barry brings to the court: spot up shooting and turnover avoidance. Over the last few years, Barry's actually been better than Finley at both aspects.

All told, I would look at both Finley and and Van Exel as role players at this point. The team will still rise and fall with Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker, though Parker's streakiness is likely to be mitigated a bit with the influx of guards.

[Jirig]

Nick and Finley excel in one thing the Spurs are notoriously horrible with:

Clutch.

With the exception of Big Shot Bob, we haven't really had anyone to turn to to give us that quick fix of adrenaline we need to get back into the game when shit hits the fan.

This comprised, IMO, the deadly ferocity of the Mavs three/four years ago. When you have Finley, Van Exel, and Nash going on a streak in the fourth... you might as well stick a fork in yourself. Didn't matter if they were down by 2 or 20.

So, in conclusion, I think I will go out on a limb and say we've bagged the '06 championship. ;x

[vonkaar]

Nick was our best player BY FAR in the 02/03 playoff series... he's got an amazing work ethic... very mature. Any team would be lucky to have him. There are few former-Mavs that get a standing ovation every time they play us, after only playing in Dallas for one year. Nick does.

Finley is obvious... he's a perfect fit in SA. There are no bad apples in the city - nothing but incredibly mature, 'good' guys. (fuck bowen). I think that's based on the example that the Admiral began... but whatever. Finley isn't selfish... he doesn't complain... and even after his injury, low-minute year, you have to put him as a top 15 2/3 in the league. He's a great medium between Bowen and Ginobili.

Spurs will win... Despite what several people think, Phoenix is weaker than last year... 2 or 3 defensive guys won't make any difference at all when your coach is a young Don Nelson and your PG is Canadian. They are an offense team and they lost 30% of that, while only marginally improving on D. Shrug... not impressed there. Sac is a huge wildcard IMO... won't make any predictions there. MN, LA, Denver and Seattle are better, but I won't give them anything in the playoffs. Dallas and Houston are the only teams that I could see getting TO the big game (Conf finals) but nobody will beat SA. Mark my words.

[Jirig]

Vonk, DL aim or yahoo and send Jiggahobag a msg. We must discuss basketball!

[Rotj]

your PG is Canadian...

hahah

[Zanchief]

I don't see Minny making the playoffs.

[xaoshaen]

Nick and Finley excel in one thing the Spurs are notoriously horrible with:

Clutch.

With the exception of Big Shot Bob, we haven't really had anyone to turn to to give us that quick fix of adrenaline we need to get back into the game when shit hits the fan.

This comprised, IMO, the deadly ferocity of the Mavs three/four years ago. When you have Finley, Van Exel, and Nash going on a streak in the fourth... you might as well stick a fork in yourself. Didn't matter if they were down by 2 or 20.

So, in conclusion, I think I will go out on a limb and say we've bagged the '06 championship. ;x

Heh, the single biggest factor in winning a championship? Injuries. If the Spurs lose Duncan in the playoffs, they're done, so you can't claim that they've 'bagged' another championship. These two signings essentially offer depth, insurance against injuries. If all the Spurs starters do stay healthy, the team will remain at roughly the same level of effectiveness as last season.

People love to talk about how 'clutch' Finley and Van Exel are, but they forget the corresponding cold streaks, particularly from Van Exel. They also overlook their woeful defensive deficiencies. Van Exel would have a hard time guarding a mannequin at this point in his career, and neither player is actually a significant upgrade over the incumbents whose minutes they'll be sharing.

As far as 'clutch' goes, Duncan put the entire team on his back and pulled them to victory multiple times in the playoffs last year, despite playing on two bad ankles. Anyone who thinks either Van Exel or Finley is going to be more important than Duncan in crunch time is crazy.

[Zanchief]

Duncan did choke in a few games last year though Xao.