What is the difference between

[The Kizzy]

an atheist and an agnostic?

[Arlos]

Athiest specifically believes that God or Gods do NOT exist.

Agnostic basically says he doesn't know one way or the other, but isn't going to worry about it.

-Arlos

[The Kizzy]

Ahhh, thanks for clearing that up.

[Griever]

So it was easier to make a thread than type it into dictionary.com and save yourself from looking unintelligent?

[Narrock]

I have an uncle in Germany who is atheist. He's also the only one in the family that had a drug problem and tried to commit suicide 3 times.

[Griever]

Do you dislike agnostics aswell?

[Hound]

There is also the distinction of 'strong' vs. 'weak' atheism:

'strong' atheism is having a belief (that no deity/dieties exist).

'weak' atheism is a lack of a belief in a diety or dieties.

Agnosticism has more to do with epistemology (knowledge claims), what
we can know about what does or does not exist.

[Darcler]

I have an uncle in Germany who is atheist. He's also the only one in the family that had a drug problem and tried to commit suicide 3 times.

And I am sure both are completely related

[Maeya]

At the risk of sparking a debate, I wouldn't say they are totally unrelated.

It seems to me that many people need faith of some sort to get by. If you do not find your faith in a diety of some sort, then you need faith in yourself (or others) to survive. While I wouldn't say that being athiest was the sole cause of his unhappiness, I would say that a lack of religious faith coupled with a lack of faith in self could be a large factor.

You see people get by with faith in self alone. You see people with very little faith in themselves get by with their religious convictions. Very rarely can you provide an incident where people survive with neither.

[Narrock]

At the risk of sparking a debate, I wouldn't say they are totally unrelated.

It seems to me that many people need faith of some sort to get by. If you do not find your faith in a diety of some sort, then you need faith in yourself (or others) to survive. While I wouldn't say that being athiest was the sole cause of his unhappiness, I would say that a lack of religious faith coupled with a lack of faith in self could be a large factor.

You see people get by with faith in self alone. You see people with very little faith in themselves get by with their religious convictions. Very rarely can you provide an incident where people survive with neither.

[dammuzis]

agnostics are often misclassified

a friend of mine said he was agnostic

after discussing it with him it turns out he beleives in a creator but doesnt buy into religeous bullshit

i told him that makes him a dieist (person who beleives in diety but has no formal religeous conviction)

[KaiineTN]

I think I would agree that people need a bit of faith in their life, but I'd much rather say it as needing to have something to believe in, rather than using the term faith. To me, believing in myself, my friends, and my family will always be the most important. No religious faith I've heard about, seen, experienced, or even that I can imagine will ever come close to the importance of self, friends, and family.

When it comes to life, I don't need, or particularly want, to know the answers to what happens once we die, or what/who created us, why, or how. I don't need a pre-determined set of moral and ethical guidelines to conform to. What I do need to get through life is people I can count on and confidence in my own abilities.

[Ginzburgh]

I know plenty of atheists and agnostics who are strong, normal individuals. I also know many religious people with drug and alcohol problems.

So no, in my opinion they are not related. Just Mindia taking a jab at people that don't fall into his category.

[Narrock]

I know plenty of atheists and agnostics who are strong, normal individuals. I also know many religious people with drug and alcohol problems.

So no, in my opinion they are not related. Just Mindia taking a jab at people that don't fall into his category.

Does your stupidity have a ceiling?

[Maeya]

I think I would agree that people need a bit of faith in their life, but I'd much rather say it as needing to have something to believe in, rather than using the term faith.

That might be a better way to put it.

I know plenty of atheists and agnostics who are strong, normal individuals. I also know many religious people with drug and alcohol problems.

Well, the first example supports my thoughts. That having faith in oneself is important, especially if you do not have any sort of religious faith in addition to that. As far as the other, there are exceptions to everything. However, I'd venture a guess to say that their religious faith is not as strong as they make it seem or believe it to be if they are experiencing those problems, and that they have little or no faith in themselves and others. Not knowing them, that is obviously just a hunch.

But I don't want to spark a debate, I was just offering my thoughts on the matter.

[Ganzo]

I think I would agree that people need a bit of faith in their life, but I'd much rather say it as needing to have something to believe in, rather than using the term faith.

That might be a better way to put it.

I know plenty of atheists and agnostics who are strong, normal individuals. I also know many religious people with drug and alcohol problems.

Well, the first example supports my thoughts. That having faith in oneself is important, especially if you do not have any sort of religious faith in addition to that. As far as the other, there are exceptions to everything. However, I'd venture a guess to say that their religious faith is not as strong as they make it seem or believe it to be if they are experiencing those problems, and that they have little or no faith in themselves and others. Not knowing them, that is obviously just a hunch.

But I don't want to spark a debate, I was just offering my thoughts on the matter.

Kabbalah explains it by speaking of Needs in stages. Everyone starts at same stage, and evolves over one or many lifespans.

-------------------------------------
god stage
5. Need for Spiritual

--------------------------------------
human stage
4. Need for Knowledge
3. Need for Fame and Power
2. Need for Money and Possessions

---------------------------------------
animal stage
1. Need for Food, Sex and Entertainment


It's like steps of a ladder that everyone climbs, and does not see next step untill all the needs and learning from his step are fulfilled. Problems generaly arise when someone forced to jump steps to spiritual before completing other. Than you get someone who turns faith into poison.[/i]

[Jay]

At the risk of sparking a debate, I wouldn't say they are totally unrelated.

It seems to me that many people need faith of some sort to get by. If you do not find your faith in a diety of some sort, then you need faith in yourself (or others) to survive. While I wouldn't say that being athiest was the sole cause of his unhappiness, I would say that a lack of religious faith coupled with a lack of faith in self could be a large factor.

You see people get by with faith in self alone. You see people with very little faith in themselves get by with their religious convictions. Very rarely can you provide an incident where people survive with neither.

I think I'm the personification of that. I just find it hard to believe that there's an all powerful know it all diety out there waiting for us in the afterlife. I think all of the natural phenomenons and stuff that can be equated to god could be explained scientifically. I think Jesus did in fact exist but that he was no more than a guy who was a bit looney tunes but all in all was a good person. I'd rather go through life believing in myself. I am my own god and I solely control what happens in my life. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those "FUCK GOD!" athiests, I just simply believe that God can be explained and that he's not what the Christians and Catholics say he is and I'm also willing to accept the fact that I MIGHT be wrong.

[Ginzburgh]

Does your stupidity have a ceiling?

You're the one generalizing an entire people as drug addicts that commit suicide (or at least attempt it) based on their lack of faith.

Now naturally you will come back and say "I didn't say that, you are too stupid to get what I was REALLY saying"

So allow me to cite some examples as to what lead me to my conclusion:

You posted this:

I have an uncle in Germany who is atheist. He's also the only one in the family that had a drug problem and tried to commit suicide 3 times.

Maeya posted this, which you quoted in your next post:

At the risk of sparking a debate, I wouldn't say they are totally unrelated.

It seems to me that many people need faith of some sort to get by. If you do not find your faith in a deity of some sort, then you need faith in yourself (or others) to survive. While I wouldn't say that being atheist was the sole cause of his unhappiness, I would say that a lack of religious faith coupled with a lack of faith in self could be a large factor.

You see people get by with faith in self alone. You see people with very little faith in themselves get by with their religious convictions. Very rarely can you provide an incident where people survive with neither.

I posted this, disputing the fact that there is actually a correlation between the faithless and drug addict / suicides (like you believe based on the context of your previous posts)

I know plenty of atheists and agnostics who are strong, normal individuals. I also know many religious people with drug and alcohol problems.

So no, in my opinion they are not related. Just Mindia taking a jab at people that don't fall into his category.

And you call me stupid. So my question is, why do you think I am stupid?

And please, no generalizations, no emotes, no cop outs, I want you to give me a rational, intelligent reason why you think I misunderstood what you were saying in your posts in this thread.

[Jay]

Oh damn, Mindia got called out.

[Narrock]

Does your stupidity have a ceiling?

You're the one generalizing an entire people as drug addicts that commit suicide (or at least attempt it) based on their lack of faith.

Now naturally you will come back and say "I didn't say that, you are too stupid to get what I was REALLY saying"

So allow me to cite some examples as to what lead me to my conclusion:

You posted this:

I have an uncle in Germany who is atheist. He's also the only one in the family that had a drug problem and tried to commit suicide 3 times.

Maeya posted this, which you quoted in your next post:

At the risk of sparking a debate, I wouldn't say they are totally unrelated.

It seems to me that many people need faith of some sort to get by. If you do not find your faith in a deity of some sort, then you need faith in yourself (or others) to survive. While I wouldn't say that being atheist was the sole cause of his unhappiness, I would say that a lack of religious faith coupled with a lack of faith in self could be a large factor.

You see people get by with faith in self alone. You see people with very little faith in themselves get by with their religious convictions. Very rarely can you provide an incident where people survive with neither.

I posted this, disputing the fact that there is actually a correlation between the faithless and drug addict / suicides (like you believe based on the context of your previous posts)

I know plenty of atheists and agnostics who are strong, normal individuals. I also know many religious people with drug and alcohol problems.

So no, in my opinion they are not related. Just Mindia taking a jab at people that don't fall into his category.

And you call me stupid. So my question is, why do you think I am stupid?

And please, no generalizations, no emotes, no cop outs, I want you to give me a rational, intelligent reason why you think I misunderstood what you were saying in your posts in this thread.

You started the shit-slinging and have now ruined yet another thread with your bullshit. That's where your stupidity comes into play. Haven't you learned your lesson by now?

The fact remains, as Maeya pointed out, that many faithless people commit suicide, or make the attempt. It's pretty odd how my uncle was the only person in my family's history that has ever made a suicide attempt. He's also the only person who is faithless, and was a heavy drug user in our family line. Coincidence? Hardly.

Now why don't you restrict your trolling to EE and stop plaguing this forum. Thank you.

[Zanchief]

Here we go again.

[Jay]

Does your stupidity have a ceiling?

You're the one generalizing an entire people as drug addicts that commit suicide (or at least attempt it) based on their lack of faith.

Now naturally you will come back and say "I didn't say that, you are too stupid to get what I was REALLY saying"

So allow me to cite some examples as to what lead me to my conclusion:

You posted this:

I have an uncle in Germany who is atheist. He's also the only one in the family that had a drug problem and tried to commit suicide 3 times.

Maeya posted this, which you quoted in your next post:

At the risk of sparking a debate, I wouldn't say they are totally unrelated.

It seems to me that many people need faith of some sort to get by. If you do not find your faith in a deity of some sort, then you need faith in yourself (or others) to survive. While I wouldn't say that being atheist was the sole cause of his unhappiness, I would say that a lack of religious faith coupled with a lack of faith in self could be a large factor.

You see people get by with faith in self alone. You see people with very little faith in themselves get by with their religious convictions. Very rarely can you provide an incident where people survive with neither.

I posted this, disputing the fact that there is actually a correlation between the faithless and drug addict / suicides (like you believe based on the context of your previous posts)

I know plenty of atheists and agnostics who are strong, normal individuals. I also know many religious people with drug and alcohol problems.

So no, in my opinion they are not related. Just Mindia taking a jab at people that don't fall into his category.

And you call me stupid. So my question is, why do you think I am stupid?

And please, no generalizations, no emotes, no cop outs, I want you to give me a rational, intelligent reason why you think I misunderstood what you were saying in your posts in this thread.

You started the shit-slinging and have now ruined yet another thread with your bullshit. That's where your stupidity comes into play. Haven't you learned your lesson by now?

The fact remains, as Maeya pointed out, that many faithless people commit suicide, or make the attempt. It's pretty odd how my uncle was the only person in my family's history that has ever made a suicide attempt. He's also the only person who is faithless, and was a heavy drug user in our family line. Coincidence? Hardly.

Now why don't you restrict your trolling to EE and stop plaguing this forum. Thank you.

Not trying to start a flame Erik but do you think it is at all possible that your uncles repeated suicide attempts and drug abuse could be due to something other than the lack of god in his life? I see it like this. He doesn't value his life and is derives joy from overloading his senses probably because there isn't much else going on. Maybe he's tired of being single, or has no job, or wife left him whatever. All of those being commonplace reasons that people do what he does, god or not.

[Ginzburgh]

The fact remains, as Maeya pointed out, that many faithless people commit suicide, or make the attempt. It's pretty odd how my uncle was the only person in my family's history that has ever made a suicide attempt. He's also the only person who is faithless, and was a heavy drug user in our family line. Coincidence? Hardly.

I'm sorry..."fact"? What "fact" has Maeya pointed out. Until she can back the statement up with some evidence it remains an assumption. And what, you had an atheist uncle who tried to kill himself so that means that all atheists are drug addict suicides? rofl. It's more probable that your uncle tried to kill himself because he's related to you than because he's an athiest.

Cite some statistical examples and prove me wrong. Until then, you have nothing.

[Jay]

It's more probable that your uncle tried to kill himself because he's related to you than because he's an athiest.

[Ginzburgh]

Fuck it, Mindia is too stupid to hold a rational debate so I have taken it upon myself to win his case for him. At least that way I can engage in an argument with someone who is capable of quoting statistical fact.

2003 World Health Organization’s report on international male suicides rates

Concerning suicide rates, this is the one indicator of societal health in which religious nations fare much better than secular nations. According to the 2003 World Health Organization’s report on international male suicides rates (which compared 100 countries), of the top ten nations with the highest male suicide rates, all but one (Sri Lanka) are strongly irreligious nations with high levels of atheism. It is interesting to note, however, that of the top remaining nine nations leading the world in male suicide rates, all are former Soviet/Communist nations, such as Belarus, Ukraine, and Latvia( viii ). Of the bottom ten nations with the lowest male suicide rates, all are highly religious nations with statistically insignificant levels of organic atheism.

It took about 15 key strokes to find that by the way.