Week 9 NFL

[Lionking]

Ok, so let's see your predictions...


Let me say now...

ROFL @ Diekan.

[Tikker]

i'm really curious to see how the indy/pats game turns out

other than those 2, there's really no one else playing at that level (a couple teams have somewhat comparable talent, but aren't as hot)

[Kramer]

i think the Pats are a 10 pt. favorite... i think they are definitely better, though not a whole lot better, than the Colts

[Eldred]

I think it's going to boil down to the Pat's D. I just think they will stop Indy more than Indy is going to be able to stop them. Unless the Colts get a few turnovers my money is on the Pat's. I don't think they'll be able to "run up" the score like they've been doing, if they can though, they'll go undefeated.

[Tikker]

only way to really beat the pats is be able to stop the run with 7, and get a LOT of pressure on brady

he's been able to sit back and just pick teams apart at will, np

[Kramer]

that's the truth. if Brady gets his usual 5 secs to throw, it will be a field day.

[Tikker]

it's the same with most teams

run the ball well enough that teams have to respect it, protect the QB and 99/100 you're goin to win (unless you give the ball away via fumbles/picks)

[Lyion]

The Pats haven't really run the ball that well all year. What they have done is given Brady all day to throw in pretty much every contest. I was amazed Gregg Williams in Washington didn't use exotic Blitz packages to try and get to Brady while going man to man more.

I can't remember Brady being hit more than once or twice in any game this year. A lot of that is due to Wes Welker, who is always open, runs amazing routes, and doesn't get the credit he deserves. It seems every time a team puts 9 in the box for a Blitz, Welker is catching a slant.

The combination of Welker and Moss is just sick, and the sad thing is those two guys were essentially given to the Patriots.

I hate the Pats but I don't see the Colts winning against them unless they can pound the rock, keep Brady on the bench, and get the Pats D and their older LBs tired. It's amazing, but the Colts and Pats have changed roles. The Pats are the high powered offense with the suspect D, and the Colts are the smash mouth team with the conservative O.

I do think the Pats are more in danger of sinking their season if they keep idiotically trying to run up the score. Some DL on some decent team is going to take the 15 penalty and take Brady out if that continues. Not every head coach is as classy as Joe Gibbs, and there are some mean SOBs the Pats will be playing later in the season, a la Tennessee and Baltimore.

[Reynaldo]

I do think the Pats are more in danger of sinking their season if they keep idiotically trying to run up the score. Some DL on some decent team is going to take the 15 penalty and take Brady out if that continues. Not every head coach is as classy as Joe Gibbs, and there are some mean SOBs the Pats will be playing later in the season, a la Tennessee and Baltimore.

I'm actually quite surprised this hasn't happened yet that a team hasn't just sent 9 blitzers and concede a TD just to bury Brady.

[Tikker]

The Pats haven't really run the ball that well all year.

I didn't think they were either, but stats say otherwise

8th in the league in rushing, averaging almost 136 yards per game, and 4.2 yards per carry

[Kramer]

suprises me too, though i guess when you QB is on the way to a 60 td season, the other parts of the O get neglected

[numatu]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story;jsessioni ... nfirm=true

It's actually a myth that the Pats and Colts have changed roles. Check out how similar they are in their styles.


Also, check out the DVOA rankings for overall efficiency, as well as offense and defense:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teameff.php

[Arlos]

I'm just wondering how long it's going to take before the Pats play a team they humiliated a 2nd time, and some lower-string D player decides to take out his team's anger at the humiliation by accepting a 4-game suspension and destroying Brady's knee.

Oh sure, his team would say all the right things in public, but bet you anything he wouldn't have to pay 1 dime of his own money to pay that fine....

-Arlos

[Harrison]

I had that done to me in High School.

I still wish plagues upon that cunt expulsion of an abortion dodge.

I was making their defense look absolutely dreadful, I took out their quarterback in their first offensive drive after the kickoff.

In small schools you played both offense and defense. I was a runningback and OLB or ILB, wherever I was needed really. I also did kick returns because I was the fastest runner. Us being a small school, that was humiliating as all hell for a school 2 divisions above us.

After my third touchdown they had a kid jump on my ankle when I was down and he fractured my ankle. I kept playing on it regardless thinking it was just twisted and mildly painful.

I fucked it up as a result. I didn't play football the next season and ran track instead. I tied for second in our division's state high jump. (First place beat us by several feet. This kid was an Olympic hopeful for sure. No idea how that panned out for him.)

[Lyion]

I'm just wondering how long it's going to take before the Pats play a team they humiliated a 2nd time, and some lower-string D player decides to take out his team's anger at the humiliation by accepting a 4-game suspension and destroying Brady's knee.

Oh sure, his team would say all the right things in public, but bet you anything he wouldn't have to pay 1 dime of his own money to pay that fine....

-Arlos

If you're team is 0-12 and has nothing to lose, like Miami, I'd put 9 in the box and aim low at Brady every play.

[Arlos]

Especially if you're pissed off and want to avenge them humiliating you by running up the score before. Karma will eventually bite them in the ass. Someone sufficiently pissed who gets Brady in a pile is GOING to deliberately try and twist his ankle or knee 360 degrees... heh.

-Arlos

[numatu]

People keep saying that, and while it might be true, history says differently. (Even recent history.)

When Manning was chasing Marino's TD record in 2004, the Colts frequently were blowing out terrible teams like the Lions and Texans, piling on points in order to break that record. There was never a mention of "running up the score" that is now all over every sports program. Coincidentally, nobody called for someone to "take out" Manning at any point during that run, either.

There were also teams with prolific offenses in the past that have piled it on, and it was perfectly acceptable to do so. Even in the Super Bowl teams would be embarrassed by scores like 55-10, 46-10, 52-17, etc. Nothing was said except "Wow, the AFC really sucks." And they did.

The culture either has become exceedingly pussified, where it can't bear to watch professional athletes lose badly even though they're paid millions to play a game, or there's an obvious motivating factor driving media members to come up with ways to discredit Belichick due to years of dealing with his monotone public persona. I'm going to assume it's the latter. It's obviously been open season on him now since Week 1.

It's also interesting the players that are so obviously quitting as early as the 3rd Quarter are not the ones seen as disrespecting the game, or not showing class. Apparently, the definition of respect and class is giving up once your opponent gives up halfway through the game. To make my point, there were media whining about "running it up" in the 2nd Quarter of the Miami game, an obvious window into their ulterior motives. These media are the same ones that label teams that give up big leads in the 4th Quarter "chokers."

[Tikker]

going for a 4th and 1 when you're up by 20+ points is most certainly running up the score, no matter what you say

[Xaiveir]

Manning and the Colts in '04 most certainly did not run up the score, like the pats have been doing.


Game-by-game results

+--------+-------------------------------+----------+---------+
| Week | Opponent | Result | Score |
+--------+-------------------------------+----------+---------+
| 1 | at New England Patriots | L | 24-27 |
| 2 | at Tennessee Titans | W | 31-17 |
| 3 | Green Bay Packers | W | 45-31 |
| 4 | at Jacksonville Jaguars | W | 24-17 |
| 5 | Oakland Raiders | W | 35-14 |
| 6 | BYE |
| 7 | Jacksonville Jaguars | L | 24-27 |
| 8 | at Kansas City Chiefs | L | 35-45 |
| 9 | Minnesota Vikings | W | 31-28 |
| 10 | Houston Texans | W | 49-14 |
| 11 | at Chicago Bears | W | 41-10 |
| 12 | at Detroit Lions | W | 41- 9 |
| 13 | Tennessee Titans | W | 51-24 |
| 14 | at Houston Texans | W | 23-14 |
| 15 | Baltimore Ravens | W | 20-10 |
| 16 | San Diego Chargers | W | 34-31 |
| 17 | at Denver Broncos | L | 14-33 |
+--------+-------------------------------+----------+---------+


Jim Sorgi their backup, played in 6 of those games. Manning was almost always out of the game LOOOONG before the end of the game. He certainly was not in the Shot gun with 4 minutes left still slinging the ball. All the Colts did was run their running play left and right when the game was getting out of hand.

Hell the game that he was 1 TD pass away from pulling even with Marino, he audibled out of a pass play at the Goal line to a run (from 3 yards out, needing 1 to tie), and even had a defensive interception returned for a would be touchdown, yet their defender stepped out of bounds at the 5 to get Manning another shot at tying the record with a minute thirty left in the game. He kneeled 4 times in a 20-10 game, because Baltimore had no timeouts left, and he did not want to run up the score (from his post game interview).

Manning and the Colts constantly during that year, said they would not run up the score just to get the record. Dungy, constantly said in interviews that the record would not mean as much to Peyton if they got it by running up the score.

So no, there has not been a team in recent times that has run up the score as the Patriots are doing.

Hell even the 55-10 blowout in the SuperBowl (49ers vs Broncos), the 49ers could have run up the score, but stopped throwing late in the game.

[numatu]

going for a 4th and 1 when you're up by 20+ points is most certainly running up the score, no matter what you say

It's actually football etiquette to go for it on 4th and 1 when you're up by 20+. Teams consider kicking a FG in that situation to be running up the score.

Jim Sorgi their backup, played in 6 of those games. Manning was almost always out of the game LOOOONG before the end of the game. He certainly was not in the Shot gun with 4 minutes left still slinging the ball.

Matt Cassel has already played in 5 of the 8 games. Matt Guiterrez has already played in 4 of the 8 games. The Patriots backups are almost at Sorgi's appearances after just 8 games.

Also, Brady hasn't been in the Shotgun with 4 minutes left still slinging the ball in a blowout game.

He kneeled 4 times in a 20-10 game, because Baltimore had no timeouts left, and he did not want to run up the score (from his post game interview).

This is the main point. In the Dallas game, Wade Phillips used his timeouts on the final Patriots scoring drive, forcing the Patriots to continue to run the ball with Kyle Eckel (the 5th string RB) instead of kneeling down and bleeding the clock. I've seen many reporters simply ignore this fact due to ignorance or intention.

| 10 | Houston Texans | W | 49-14 |
| 11 | at Chicago Bears | W | 41-10 |
| 12 | at Detroit Lions | W | 41- 9 |
| 13 | Tennessee Titans | W | 51-24

Hell the game that he was 1 TD pass away from pulling even with Marino, he audibled out of a pass play at the Goal line to a run (from 3 yards out, needing 1 to tie), and even had a defensive interception returned for a would be touchdown, yet their defender stepped out of bounds at the 5 to get Manning another shot at tying the record with a minute thirty left in the game. He kneeled 4 times in a 20-10 game, because Baltimore had no timeouts left, and he did not want to run up the score (from his post game interview).

He was throwing the ball, had it picked and reversed, then knelt known. That's not a startling revelation, that's more of "oh shit we almost screwed ourselves, kneel it and let's get out of here."

The four games I pasted above are examples of blowout wins they had in 2004.

In the Houston game, Indianapolis was throwing the ball until the early 4th Quarter, and had a TD pass right in between the quarters. This is within 3 or 4 minutes of the last Brady-led TD pass in the Washington game. Ditto in the Detroit game on Thanksgiving. Ditto on the Houston game, with the last TD pass coming in the 4th Quarter.

[Tikker]

going for a 4th and 1 when you're up by 20+ points is most certainly running up the score, no matter what you say

It's actually football etiquette to go for it on 4th and 1 when you're up by 20+. Teams consider kicking a FG in that situation to be running up the score.

you lost all credibility saying that

[Xaiveir]

going for a 4th and 1 when you're up by 20+ points is most certainly running up the score, no matter what you say

It's actually football etiquette to go for it on 4th and 1 when you're up by 20+. Teams consider kicking a FG in that situation to be running up the score.

you lost all credibility saying that

QFT



So many different responses to that, i do not know which one to pick.

[numatu]

I can't think of a single instance where in a blowout game, the winning team kicks a field goal inside the opposing team's territory late in the game.

Jimmy Johnson said the same thing, Bradshaw, Parcells, Belichick, Esiason, Cowher and Mike Ditka also.

How can you lose all credibility for saying something that at least 7 other former players/coaches have said (and have always said) just in the last week alone?

[Tikker]

the simplest one is just punt the ball

if there's still lots of time left in the game, kicking a field goal, rather than scoring a TD is hardly going to be misconstrued as running up the score

[Tikker]

now, if the team you're playing is a bunch of cocksuckers, or has TO, or some other mouth, then run up the score by all means

they deserve it

I have absolutely zero problems with revenge style shitkickings

it's what makes football great