Canadian Corruption Scandal

Post by **Lyion** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:10 pm

http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/ ... 004231.php

Interesting stuff going on up North, and I'll be surprised if Paul Martin can weather the storm.

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:13 am

The political tide has been slowly changing against the liberals the last few years, regardless of a scandal

I'm not a liberal fan in anyway, but they're idealogy tends to fit better than the Tories, who just want to be USA north

Post by **Martrae** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:14 am

Maybe they can be USA the way USA is supposed to be?

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:19 am

I don't think so

In general, Canadians are a lot more left leaning than Americans

Post by **Lyion** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:05 am

Tikker wrote:I don't think so

In general, Canadians are a lot more left leaning than Americans

I disagree. Almost every Canadian I've worked with and spoken with actually is moderate or even slightly conservative.

The problem in Canada is their media is even worse than ours, which is fairly bad and slanted.

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:47 am

What do you mean by conservative?

conservative as in cautious, resistant to change?

or like the Conservative Party of Canada? (the right wing political group)

And as a Canadian, I'm going to trust my observations of my people, as opposed to your view of the 100(?) or so that you've worked with

Post by **Lyion** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:58 am

Conservative as in the opposite of liberal.

I'm just saying what I've seen and from discussing issues with a lot of Canucks I work with.

I don't think Canada is any more conservative or liberal than the US. I think the Media and entities in Canada are more fascist in preventing alternative opinions and the CBC is especially horrid.

I get the CBC in Sandusky. It makes the New York Times look moderate.

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:28 am

Let's step back a bit tho

I think Canada as a whole is a fair amount different than the US (not good, not bad, just diff't)

That being said, there are a lot of regional similaries

Ontario is fairly similar to Michigan, the prairies are fairly similar to the Dakotas and minnesota, and alberta is a lot like texas

But Canadian attitude in general is different than American in a lot of ways, but it's hard to explain

If you travel to mexico, or somewhere in Europe, you can pick out Americans and Canadians by their attitudes

Politically, there's a lot of similarities, but even more differences

The Liberal party here, is kind of the middle of the road party. they have left and right leanings

The NDP (new democrats) are the left leaning socialists (they've never formed a Federal government, but have formed many/various provincial governments)

the Conservatives are the right leaning part of Canada

Overall tho, all parties believe in a certain amount of socialism, in a fair greater amount than either of the 2 American parties

Post by **Lyion** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:44 pm

This is 90% identical to the views of the Republican Party
http://www.conservative.ca/english/issues.asp

This is not too far from our Democratic Party.
http://www.liberal.ca/default_e.aspx

Things in the US are cyclical. Congress rotates through both parties and the Presidency swaps back and forth. I believe our government operates BEST when the Presidency is controlled by one party and the Congress is controlled by the other.

The thing is there is better discussion and accountability in the US, I think, than in Canada. It seems many Canadians take a Laissez Faire approach to politics, moreso than we do here.

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2005/weinreb040505.htm

Adscam is a big deal for the politicians and the media. Unfortunately, it seems that corruption in government has crossed over the line and it is no longer regarded as simply an event. From the reaction, or lack of it, from most of the Canadian public, government corruption now seems to be a way of life, much as it is in Nigeria or India.

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 1:15 pm

You're not taking into account the NDP tho, which is more left leaning than the liberals

You'll also find that our "right wing" parties still support a large amount of social programs that your republicans don't

It seems many Canadians take a Laissez Faire approach to politics, moreso than we do here.

What percentage of Americans vote?

Post by **Lyion** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 1:20 pm

I think the last Presidential Election had a bit higher than 60% Presidential votes.

My point is Americans are a bit more 'accountable' in regards to Politicans actions. At least according to the Canadians who wrote that article.

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 1:28 pm

You're also taking that statement a bit out of context

He's referring to the reaction(or rather, the lack of reaction) in the general populace calling for an immediate election

Rust · Post by **Rust** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:11 pm

Not to mention the other Federal Party, the Bloc Quebecois, is also a left-wing party.

And the CBC is pretty middle-of-the-road in Canadian politics. If you think it's 'left wing' you don't understand Canada.

--R.

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:19 pm

I don't think he was calling the CBC leftwing, I read his comment more as the CBC is biased in its reporting

But it could also just be that he doesn't like how America is portrayed on the canadian news

Post by **Lyion** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:24 pm

First, I am NOT an expert on Canadian Politics. Both of you know a lot more than me as I only occasionally read up on them, and my view is mostly from Canadian friends who do lean 'conservative'.

Yeah, my point was CBC has a strong liberal bias. It may be considered moderate, but again that isn't what I've been told from friends.

This is an interesting point of view, though, and somewhat along what I've heard. http://www.cbcwatch.ca/?q=node/view/6/467

There's a simple way to prove the CBC has a liberal bias -- the fact that CBC Newsworld does not have one single commentator who speaks from the right. Of course, there are plenty of those paid to give opinions from the left: Carol Off, Evan Solomon and Carol McNeil, Steve Burgess, Bob McKewon, etc., etc. The list goes on and on.

Taking CNN for example, that network "employs" (not merely having them as invited guests) the likes of Tucker carlson, Robert Novak and Kate O'beirne, who provide commentary from thr right to balance out those on the left.

Who are the conservative commentators on CBC Newsworld? CBC supporters saying, "Well, it's your opinion that the CBC has a liberal bias" isn't an answer to the question. Give us, the critics of CBC Newsworld, names of who the conservative commentators on the payroll.

It doesn't matter if one media is all left or all right for that matter. What makes it so appaling that the CBC is strictly left-wing is that it is subsidized by taxpayers -- millions of whom aren't liberal and shouldn't have their tax dollars taken to push one point of view, and one point of view only.

The CBC tilts so far to the Left that, according to CanadaFreePress.com, some Canadians refer to it as “The Communist Broadcasting Corporation.”

Malluas · Post by **Malluas** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:04 pm

Tikker is right in a sense and wrong in a sense.

Right leaning Canadians have some socialist views that conservatives in the US don't. The republican party down here is more left leaning than conservatives.

Up there eveyrone hates the frenchies/socialists etc . Except the majority of the population is there so they all get screwed.

Its very much like California. You have everyone outside of LA and the Bay Area who are more republican.. everyone in those cities are liberals. More liberals in those 2 areas than the rest of the state so liberals win.

Lyion CNN might employ a few conservatives/republicans but they always shout them down.. and their live audiances are liberal so its not really a fair debate EVER.

Hannity and Colmes used to be good.. but now that Hannity constantly kicks the shit outta Colmes it got boring.

I liked the OLD crossfire.. 1 hour.. 2 on 2.. no audience. And i liked H&C before Colmes got his crosseyes fixed..

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:06 pm

CanadaFreePress is quite a bit more bias'd than the CBC tho, heh

I've also never heard the CBC referred to as the Communist Broadcasting Corporation

I have heard some Canadians call Bush a moron tho, so you could say that some Canadians refer to Bush as a moron, and it would probably be as accurate of a statement

but back on topic~

The scandal sux, and people in general feel that most politicians are crooks (politicians of pretty much every country!)

Depending on where you're from, politics plays a bigger or smaller part of your life

In Saskatchewan, politics is a big deal (partly because there's not much else to do here but talk about politics)

With a big split between rural and urban voting patterns, as well as a huge political environment differnce from our Alberta neighbours, it's pretty hard to go consecutive hours without hearing about some form of political discussion

Malluas · Post by **Malluas** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:08 pm

and besides.. corruption is so rampant in EVERY single country it doesn't even matter now.

You have the NY Times tryin to kill Delay.. but Harry Ried did more things than Delay did.. and you get no mention other than how great he is. BUt Delay gets owned?

here any corruption by liberals is heralded as smart.. great heros.. etc.. Look at Hilary and her fraud during her elections.. Sandy Burger destroy classified documents to make sure clinton didn't get owned by them

But you have delay being raked over the coles and not ONE shred of evidence has been introduced to have him removed or indicted.

And even if Delay did something wrong.. the way news media covers things here perpetuates corruption on one side as GREAT and the other side bad.. so everyone gets desensitized to it

Narrock · Post by **Narrock** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:33 pm

Canada is such a beautiful, pristine country. Why is it run by a bunch of socialistic leftist pinkos? :dunno:

Rust · Post by **Rust** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:01 pm

Because we don't believe in letting inbred reactionary Jesus freaks like you run the place, Mindia. Plus this way we get a better education and health care system. All in all, it seems to have worked.

--R.

Narrock · Post by **Narrock** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:26 pm

Rust wrote:Because we don't believe in letting inbred reactionary Jesus freaks like you run the place, Mindia. Plus this way we get a better education and health care system. All in all, it seems to have worked.

--R.

Better education and health care system? lol

You mean cheaper health care and cheaper education because of the socialistic economic structure.

And you don't have Christians in Canada? I find that hard to believe. In fact, I would be willing to bet that many of your members of Parliament, or whatever you call it up there are Christians too.

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:23 pm

Mindia wrote:
Rust wrote:Because we don't believe in letting inbred reactionary Jesus freaks like you run the place, Mindia. Plus this way we get a better education and health care system. All in all, it seems to have worked.

--R.

Better education and health care system? lol

You mean cheaper health care and cheaper education because of the socialistic economic structure.

And you don't have Christians in Canada? I find that hard to believe. In fact, I would be willing to bet that many of your members of Parliament, or whatever you call it up there are Christians too.

Yes better health care, and better education

Rust's key phrase was

inbred reactionary Jesus freaks like you run the place, Mindia

He made no references to christians at all

Rust · Post by **Rust** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:28 am

I could point out that at one point, the leaders of the Liberals (Turner), PCs (Mulroney) and NDP (Broadbent) were all Catholics.

I have no idea what religion (if any) Martin (Liberal), Harper (PC), Layton (NDP) and Duceppe (BQ) are. It's irrelevant. Trudeau was Catholic, taught by Jesuits, and over his career as PM, piloted the decriminalization of homosexuality and abortion in the late 1960s. He also oversaw the elimination of the death penalty in Canada. He also created the Charter of Rights and Freedoms in the Constitution. Chretien (the previous PM) famously joked about looking forward to making marijuana possession a misdemeanor and having his joint in one hand and his cash in the other for the police. Martin is overseeing the legalization of gay marriage (although I suspect he personally would prefer civil unions). Mulroney oversaw the removal of abortion laws in the 1980s. In Canada, there is *no* criminal law about abortion. It's simply a medical proceedure. End of story.

Belief in God certainly doesn't seem to correlate with moral behaviour in politics in any event...

Put people like Mindia in charge and there'll be burning at the stake coming back. No thanks. We chose a different road.

--R.

Post by **Lyion** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:48 am

While I agree with your sentiments about Mindia, I do notice Canada's Government seems to try to be more Euro in nature. That's a double edged sword.

I'd be interesting in seeing real polls about Canadian views on Abortion. Especially third trimester. Also, does Canada's government have as good a separation of powers as America?

I'll see if there are facts and numbers online.

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:59 am

WHat do you mean by Canada's government is more Euro in nature? need more details~

As for abortion, it's still a really heated topic, just not quite as much in the states

The pro-life folks have billboards, the pro choice folks have billboards
In canada, abortion can not/will not be performed after the 12th (or 13th?) week of pregnancy unless for some reason the fetus endagers the mothers life

And explain what you mean by seperation of powers?