Long dev post on warriors

Post by **Lyion** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:22 pm

I'm not speccing my mage for solo PVP. I think anyone who doesn't spec for group play will regret it later on.

I could care less about duels, I want to wipe out dozens with a small group.

vonkaar · Post by **vonkaar** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:26 pm

Lacan...
How are you going about fighting mobs? At your level, I was mowing through mobs 2-3 levels higher than me, one after another... I could do even-level elites with no problem. Shadow-priests can solo just as quick as rogues, you'll just spend more money because of drinks.

At level 52, I can still run through mobs at the same rate... 53-54 np. Anything equal or below me, it's laughable. Come watch me in Un'goro some time if you want to see what I'm doing that's maybe different.

My typical fight looks like...

I see a mob
I cast mind blast... wait while it casts... boom, hit paint-dot immediately... now mob is running at me
I back up while the spell timer is cycling (1 secon) to get a bt of distance for mind-flay (like, 5 more feet... not a big deal)
Mind flay
I might get a stun in from the flay, so I'll lay another one in.
By now, mind blast has refeshed so I nuke again...

they are nearly dead... dot+melee, maybe another mind flay will finish them off. That's only about 1/4th of a mana bar, which spirit tap will finish back up while I'm pulling the next mob. Repeat, rinse... etc.

Post by **DangerPaul** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:04 pm

Lacan, your comments about warriors is flawed as well, because if you take how I was specced vs say Fgnomes, we were 2 totally different warriors. He can mow through mobs solo, however, I guaranfuckintee you, he couldn't lock aggro like I could. Ask Skrum or Vonkaar if they could steal aggro from me if they tried (assuming you are in the Nameless) they couldn't. I was purely built for tanking / locking aggro, and I wasn't going to respec again, just so I could solo at 1/2 the rate of all other classes.

Tacks · Post by **Tacks** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:17 pm

putting that crap belt on I'd sacrifice 90 hit points 9 agility and 9 strength, no thanks

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:17 pm

people are retarded about how they compare classes usually

I ran into a hunter the other day who was whining because toe to toe he couldn't outdamage a rogue.....

10sun · Post by **10sun** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:53 pm

DangerPaul wrote:Lacan, your comments about warriors is flawed as well, because if you take how I was specced vs say Fgnomes, we were 2 totally different warriors. He can mow through mobs solo, however, I guaranfuckintee you, he couldn't lock aggro like I could. Ask Skrum or Vonkaar if they could steal aggro from me if they tried (assuming you are in the Nameless) they couldn't. I was purely built for tanking / locking aggro, and I wasn't going to respec again, just so I could solo at 1/2 the rate of all other classes.

Actually I can when I care, but I have to work a lot harder switching through every single stance to do it. Thus I am usually just happy to stick to arms stance and dump rage til bosses.

-Adam

Lacan · Post by **Lacan** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:29 pm

Lacan, your comments about warriors is flawed as well, because if you take how I was specced vs say Fgnomes, we were 2 totally different warriors. He can mow through mobs solo, however, I guaranfuckintee you, he couldn't lock aggro like I could. Ask Skrum or Vonkaar if they could steal aggro from me if they tried (assuming you are in the Nameless) they couldn't. I was purely built for tanking / locking aggro, and I wasn't going to respec again, just so I could solo at 1/2 the rate of all other classes.

The same could be said about Priests as well. Shadow build is for soloing and I can just get away with healing instances but it takes a lot of work...a lot more work than if I was in a holy build and often I run out of mana which I would not have in a holy build. Of course if I went with a holy build I would be the worst soloing class in the game.

Lacan...
How are you going about fighting mobs? At your level, I was mowing through mobs 2-3 levels higher than me, one after another... I could do even-level elites with no problem. Shadow-priests can solo just as quick as rogues, you'll just spend more money because of drinks.

At level 52, I can still run through mobs at the same rate... 53-54 np. Anything equal or below me, it's laughable. Come watch me in Un'goro some time if you want to see what I'm doing that's maybe different.

My typical fight looks like...

I see a mob
I cast mind blast... wait while it casts... boom, hit paint-dot immediately... now mob is running at me
I back up while the spell timer is cycling (1 secon) to get a bt of distance for mind-flay (like, 5 more feet... not a big deal)
Mind flay
I might get a stun in from the flay, so I'll lay another one in.
By now, mind blast has refeshed so I nuke again...

they are nearly dead... dot+melee, maybe another mind flay will finish them off. That's only about 1/4th of a mana bar, which spirit tap will finish back up while I'm pulling the next mob. Repeat, rinse... etc.

Sure at the moment I can kill stuff 2 levels above me (not three though, far to many resists so I can't see how this would be possible) but at the cost of kill time and having to sit and drink far more often which takes time itself. Every time I sit to drink a rogue could be killing another and that really starts to add up during long grind sessions. By targeting mobs 1-2 levels below me I end up with 3/4 my mana bar after a kill rather than 1/3 of my mana bar. With Spirit Tap running I can pretty much get 7-8 kills per bar of mana killing 2 levels below me rather than 2-4 kills per mana killing 2 levels above me for only 30-40 XP more per kill. Another major reason I do this is because I tend to use Physic Scream over shield because of its low MP cost. Fear almost always lasts its' full duration on the mobs 1-2 levels below me.

And to answer your other question, I do pretty much the same as you. Mind Blast -> Dot -> Backpettle until refresh -> Mind Flay -> Physic Scream (or shield if I can't fear) -> Mind Flay (at this point I can either let the dot finish it off or flay it one more time it looks like it needs a bit more HP taken off for the dot to finish it.) Because of the lower HP on mobs a few levels below me I am usually saving the MP from another Mind Blast and over a long session that really starts to add up.

As for Elites, I dunno I guess I could kill an even Elite but it would take everything I have so it really won't be worth it. I sure can't efficiently grind off them like a lot of other classes are able to.

Post by **Lyion** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:36 pm

vonkaar wrote: Shadow-priests can solo just as quick as rogues, you'll just spend more money because of drinks.

Just make friends with a few mages. I summon drinks for plenty of priests, usually 80/pop

Almas · Post by **Almas** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:53 pm

I'm trying to get grouped up as much as possible for warrior, and the build route I'm taking is defense because I plan of raid encounters, as far as lvling, yeah it sucks, but the class is fun so far, but makes be cry when I compare to my hunter in lvling. :cry:

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:03 pm

Lacan wrote:Of course if I went with a holy build I would be the worst soloing class in the game.

Wrong.

xaoshaen · Post by **xaoshaen** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:25 pm

Lacan wrote:As for Elites, I dunno I guess I could kill an even Elite but it would take everything I have so it really won't be worth it. I sure can't efficiently grind off them like a lot of other classes are able to.

Please define "a lot" of other classes. Warriors don't grind off elites. Mages don't usually grind off elites, though I've done it in certain situations (ironically, it was Demius who started me on them), Druids don't grind off elites...

It's kind of funny how almost every class sucks at soloing... just ask them if you don't believe me. So far in The Nameless, we have a warlock who quit to play a mage to solo better, a priest who says that priests suck for soloing, a mage kvetching about a priest soloing better than he did, and the usual warrior angst.

Seriously, not all classes can solo at the same rate, nor should they be expected to. Should a priest, one of the most popular characters for a group, really expect to solo at the same rate as a rogue or a hunter? Should the single most indispensable class for the horde (warrior, for those wondering) expect to solo as well as a warlock?

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:36 pm

xaoshaen wrote:Seriously, not all classes can solo at the same rate, nor should they be expected to. Should a priest, one of the most popular characters for a group, really expect to solo at the same rate as a rogue or a hunter? Should the single most indispensable class for the horde (warrior, for those wondering) expect to solo as well as a warlock?

Yes they should. Blizzard has said that they tried to calculate dmg taken and dmg delt to even out all classes.

Warrior angst? hmmm.

Asnwer this Xao.

Worst PVP class?

Worst SOLO class?

Oh, we are "useful" for PVE.

Thats so great for me.

Jirig · Post by **Jirig** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:13 pm

How are you specced, Lyion?

I decided to respec and went full frost... Thinking of tossing some into arcane for imp. arc missiles / CC / evo... but right now, I'm happy with where I'm at. The only classes I have a hard time taking down are shamans and rogues. Priests can be a pita if played properly too. PvE isn't an issue. Frost is more consistent, if less spectacular. But I grew tired of the burst DPS of fire pretty quickly. ~_~

PS. Fuck cold blood. SO much h8, Ginz. ><

xaoshaen · Post by **xaoshaen** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:32 am

Zanchief wrote:Yes they should. Blizzard has said that they tried to calculate dmg taken and dmg delt to even out all classes.

Warrior angst? hmmm.

Asnwer this Xao.

Worst PVP class?

Worst SOLO class?

Oh, we are "useful" for PVE.

Thats so great for me.

Worst solo class? Warrior
Most important grouping class? Warrior

There's a tradeoff there. You can't expect to be the best at everything. Right now, there are a handful of classes that are probably a bit too strong at both grouping and soloing, but they're the exception rather than the rule. If you want everyone to solo equally well, you're going to have to adjust the importance of each class within a group as well. Perhaps making druids tank as well as warriors would help.

Calling warriors the worst at PvP is, frankly, bullshit. A warrior with good resist gear and a decent weapon will annihilate casters. A warrior is also a valuable part of a PvP team.

Post by **Lyion** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:44 am

Jirig wrote:How are you specced, Lyion?

I'm Fire/Arcane specced. At 60 I'll be Frost/Arcane Specced.

Zanchief · Post by **Zanchief** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:06 pm

I dont have the inventory space to carry around 10 extra slots of gear on the off chance somoene wants to /duel me.

xaoshaen · Post by **xaoshaen** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:30 am

Zanchief wrote:I dont have the inventory space to carry around 10 extra slots of gear on the off chance somoene wants to /duel me.

If you don't want to haul around two sets of gear, that's certaintly understandable. Just don't expect to be as competitive as those who do. I know that as a Mage, I carry around 2.5 sets of gear, which will be increasing as I acquire more resist gear, and it was even worse as a druid (3 sets of gear without any resistance gear).

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:38 am

All I have to say about carrying around sets of gear is.

FUCK that, they already limit our inventory space to ass.

(it's not the space, it's the inordinate amounts of CRAP they make you carry while questing, tradeskills, totems (only 4, but it is space), reagents, potions, the list goes on...)

But that being said, I will likely be doing it >_<

I already carry around a bunch of weapons and gear combos for different sets of mobs. If I am going up against beasts I actually have a good bunch of gear for that in specific.

Zanathar · Post by **Zanathar** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:42 am

xaoshaen wrote:It's kind of funny how almost every class sucks at soloing... just ask them if you don't believe me. So far in The Nameless, we have a warlock who quit to play a mage to solo better

Not exactly, I am just a better Mage than Warlock because of my roots.

vonkaar · Post by **vonkaar** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:48 am

I do =/.

I seriously only have about 8 slots of 'loot' space available at any given time... I PVP too much to not carry resist gear... plus all my stat food, quest shit, juice, food... blahblahblah...

sucks

Tacks · Post by **Tacks** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:52 am

I have an entire 16 slot bag full of poisons and flash powder. My first back is full of keys + mining pick + thieves tools + blacksmith hammer + mount + hearthstone etc etc. Second bag usually has assorted bullshit that won't fit into my bank or quests that are 10 levels below me that I think i'll finish one day. Then the other 2 bags are empty.

Zanathar · Post by **Zanathar** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:03 am

Belt is an instant cast with a 5 second duration buff that prevents roots, it has a 4 second cool down period, so you can keep the effect up indefinitely.

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:21 am

I have someone making me one <3

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:24 am

none of you fuckers gets to whine about bag space until you play a hunter with engineering and mining, wuwu