The Overpowered and the Underpowered

Agrajag · Post by **Agrajag** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:17 pm

SON OF A...

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:19 pm

Shaman, in my opinion, are not overpowered in the least. Not even close to borderline. People that complain about shaman being too strong are the ones that get beat by them in PvP and use the "shaman are too strong, thats why I couldn't win" line to sleep at night.

Shaman are borederline overpowered because they don't have any real weaknesses, yet they're fairly decent at almost every aspect of the game (pvp and pve)

their weakest ability is their CC, but with good ac, can perform reasonably well as offtanks

Shit, we used a 48 shaman as a main tank all the way thru mauradon the other night

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:21 pm

An enhancement specced shaman can tank reasonably well...1h/shield

Tacks · Post by **Tacks** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:28 pm

Shamans are overpowered from 1-50. After that they're balanced. It will be much more fun in Molten Core killing without Noobladin's there to make it weaksauce.

Jazendar · Post by **Jazendar** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:52 pm

Stabfase what level do i need to be to start the quests for the Lifeforce dirk? I went to mar yesterday and killed the 4 named, got some hammer that does 50 mana proc with 11sta 5str 35.8dps or something like that. Along with a sword that's 36ish dps with a critical spell proc. Useless to rogues but nice dps, i supose.

And secondly, could you make a build on a website on one of those talent generators and send it to me via email or something Taxx? The sub ass build, or post it here, either way, it would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Weazilla · Post by **Weazilla** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:02 pm

do you guys think it would be more reasonable to assume that shaman and rogues (and pallys too with the shield nerf) are actually totally complete classes while the others need to be improved to match up? I think it would be much better to give the rest a bit of a boost, rather than ruin an already fun and complete set of classes.

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:09 pm

If you are in your mid 30's and 40's you should KNOW what to put your talent points into by then.

Stabfase · Post by **Stabfase** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:47 pm

Jazendar wrote:Stabfase what level do i need to be to start the quests for the Lifeforce dirk? I went to mar yesterday and killed the 4 named, got some hammer that does 50 mana proc with 11sta 5str 35.8dps or something like that. Along with a sword that's 36ish dps with a critical spell proc. Useless to rogues but nice dps, i supose.

And secondly, could you make a build on a website on one of those talent generators and send it to me via email or something Taxx? The sub ass build, or post it here, either way, it would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Big post incoming:

For the lifeforce dirk, at level 40, you can head to Steamwheedle Port, which is North of Gadgetzan on the coast in Tanaris, talk to a person named Yeh'kinya under a tent and he will give you Screecher Spirits, once you've done that he will give you The Prophecy of Mosh'aru which takes you into Zul'Farrak for two tablets, after that, you'll get the Ancient Egg, the biggest pain of this chain of quests, it involves getting an Egg from Jintha'Alor in the Hinterlands, place is full of 48-53 elites, its a big pain in the ass, after that, you get the God Hakkar quest which is the Sunken Temple part which when compelted gives you the Lifeforce dirk.

Now onto the Sub/Ass build. For daggers you can do this:

Assassination Talents (21 points)

# Improved Eviscerate - 3/3 points
Increases the damage done by your Eviscerate ability by 15%.

# Malice - 5/5 points
Increases your critical strike chance by 5%.

# Ruthlessness - 3/3 points
Gives your finishing moves a 60% chance to add a combo point to your target.

# Murder - 2/2 points
Increases your chance to hit while using your Sap, Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot abilities by 5%.

# Relentless Strikes - 1/1 point
Your finishing moves have a 20% chance per combo point to restore 25 energy.

# Lethality - 5/5 points
Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Ambush, Ghostly Strike, or Hemorrhage ability by 30%.

# Improved Instant Poison - 1/5 point
Increases the chance to apply Instant Poison to your target by 2%.

# Cold Blood - 1/1 point
When activated, increases the critical strike chance of your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, or Eviscerate by 100%.

Combat Talents (8 points)

# Improved Gouge - 3/3 points
Increases the effect duration of your Gouge ability by 1.5 seconds.

# Improved Sinister Strike - 2/2 points
Reduces the Energy cost of your Sinister Strike ability by 5 Energy.

# Improved Backstab - 3/3 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Backstab ability by 30%.

Subtlety Talents (22 points)

# Camouflage - 5/5 points
Increases your speed while stealthed by 15%.

# Opportunity - 5/5 points
Increases the damage dealt when striking from behind with your Backstab, Garrote, or Ambush abilities by 20%.

# Improved Ambush - 3/3 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Ambush ability by 40%.

# Initiative - 5/5 points
Gives you a 75% chance to add an additional combo point to your target when using your Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot ability.

# Improved Sap - 3/3 points
Adds a 90% chance to return to stealth mode after using your Sap ability.

# Preparation - 1/1 point
When activated, this ability immediately finishes the cooldown on your other Rogue abilities.

or you can make this into a sword build and do this:

Assassination Talents (21 points)

# Improved Eviscerate - 3/3 points
Increases the damage done by your Eviscerate ability by 15%.

# Malice - 5/5 points
Increases your critical strike chance by 5%.

# Ruthlessness - 3/3 points
Gives your finishing moves a 60% chance to add a combo point to your target.

# Murder - 2/2 points
Increases your chance to hit while using your Sap, Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot abilities by 5%.

# Relentless Strikes - 1/1 point
Your finishing moves have a 20% chance per combo point to restore 25 energy.

# Lethality - 5/5 points
Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Ambush, Ghostly Strike, or Hemorrhage ability by 30%.

# Improved Instant Poison - 1/5 point
Increases the chance to apply Instant Poison to your target by 2%.

# Cold Blood - 1/1 point
When activated, increases the critical strike chance of your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, or Eviscerate by 100%.

Combat Talents (4 points)

# Improved Gouge - 2/3 points
Increases the effect duration of your Gouge ability by 1 second.

# Improved Sinister Strike - 2/2 points
Reduces the Energy cost of your Sinister Strike ability by 5 Energy.

Subtlety Talents (26 points)

# Camouflage - 5/5 points
Increases your speed while stealthed by 15%.

# Opportunity - 5/5 points
Increases the damage dealt when striking from behind with your Backstab, Garrote, or Ambush abilities by 20%.

# Improved Ambush - 3/3 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Ambush ability by 40%.

# Initiative - 5/5 points
Gives you a 75% chance to add an additional combo point to your target when using your Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot ability.

# Ghostly Strike - 1/1 point
A strike that deals 125% weapon damage and increases your chance to dodge by 15% for 7 seconds. Awards 1 combo point.

# Improved Sap - 3/3 points
Adds a 90% chance to return to stealth mode after using your Sap ability.

# Preparation - 1/1 point
When activated, this ability immediately finishes the cooldown on your other Rogue abilities.

# Improved Cheap Shot - 2/2 points
Reduces the Energy cost of your Cheap Shot ability by 20.

# Hemorrhage - 1/1 point
An instant strike that damages the opponent and causes the target to hermorrhage, increasing any Physical damage dealt to the target by up to 3. Lasts 30 charges or 15 seconds. Awards 1 combo point.

think that about covers it. :wink:

Jazendar · Post by **Jazendar** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:16 pm

Thanks much stabface, i printed that information out. Much <3, one last question, though. I'm level 45, should i keep my talents what they are (sub tree mostly) until 60? Or relearn for 10g and just build from what you've given me. And if i should respec, should i respec in a certain way since i won't be able to get all the skills you've listed (until 60).

and for whoever said i should know what my talent points should be. I do, but you have to understand that rogues have so many different skills, and they're all helpful, as opposed to hunters where obviously you go all marks and then 5 into hawk etc. Every single skill is usefull for Rogues in talent trees, basically. So it's nice to have some insight on what others are doing at the higher levels, since obviously i haven't seen them yet.

Stabfase · Post by **Stabfase** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:18 pm

You should be fine, Taxx went Sub tree first also and was fine, it all comes down to play style and how you like to level.

Langston · Post by **Langston** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:21 pm

Take what Finawin says with a grain of salt. You should hear how he spec'ed his shaman.

I wouldn't necessarily agree that in your 30s you'll *KNOW* what to put your talent points in. There are too many threads saying "it should be done this way or you're an idiot!" and people follow mindlessly. It takes a little experimentation to discover what talents work best for your play style and at level 35 you don't have enough points to even investigate one single tree - let alone enough of three to make informed decisions.

Expect to respec at least once as you grow with your character and learn best how your skill, style, and game approach fit in with your available talents.

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:39 pm

My shaman is spec'd just fine.

Langston · Post by **Langston** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:55 pm

Harrison wrote:My shaman is spec'd just fine.

Coming from the guy who said he knew exactly how to spec when he was in his 30s.

WoWShaman · Post by **WoWShaman** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:37 pm

Nameless wrote:Shaman
Training costs adjusted. Total training cost was decreased.
Tremor Totem - Now creates the appropriate looking earth totem; tooltip updated to clarify what effects it counters; radius of effect increased; now pulses more frequently.
Astral Recall - The tooltip now includes the home point the spell will recall you to.
We've changed the spell icon of several totem spells. They should now all be unique.
Searing Totem - Damage slightly increased.
Reincarnation - No longer causes resurrection sickness..

I take back a few things.
That makes us now slightly overpowered. Reincarnation was fine how it was.
Shaman are now overpowered.

Weazilla · Post by **Weazilla** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:40 pm

yep... it's going to be fun =P

it'll probably be nerfed next patch but oh well.

Tacks · Post by **Tacks** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:28 am

Oops that post above should have said 1-50, changing it now.

Thon · Post by **Thon** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:28 am

i honestly can't defend paladin shields as anything other than homo. maybe if we only had 1, but we get 2 invuln shields on different refresh timers.

Adivina · Post by **Adivina** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:39 am

WTF.... why should you know how you want to spec at 30 to 40? Screw that, I respecced Adi several times just to play around with different builds. Personally I think its the best thing you can do, mess around with different builds and see which one best suits your play style.

Tacks · Post by **Tacks** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:53 am

Thon wrote:i honestly can't defend paladin shields as anything other than homo. maybe if we only had 1, but we get 2 invuln shields on different refresh timers.

Coming from a rogue's perspective, if they put a lasting snare effect on them while shielded I'd have absolutely no problem with it. As it is right now it is basically "god mode". A snare effect would resolve ALL the issues I have with it.

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:08 am

Good point, them healing back up while shielded is fine. (they don't hurt me anyways)

I kill a paladin essentially 3 times before it can even come close to killing me 1 on 1.

10sun · Post by **10sun** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:22 am

I'd rather see them prohibited from casting other spells while shielded and maybe gain 20% of their HP instead.

-Adam

WoWShaman · Post by **WoWShaman** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:45 am

You can interupt their divine shield if your lucky with an earthshock and then it takes 2 seconds before they can cast.
With a nice big 2hander you hit them with shock stop their shield bullshit and then while they are slackjawed your big 2hander comes in with windfury and you have dead paladin.
<3 Adam for my resurgance rod ~

Langston · Post by **Langston** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:46 am

I am amused by people who think that shaman melee is their best offensive damage.

WoWShaman · Post by **WoWShaman** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:08 am

I dunno Ug,
For being 45, Drop a shock, and get 250 ~ 500ish, in 5 seconds. while lightening shield for 500ish is nice, But getting a string of crits on windfury for 710, 680, and 387 while then following it up with shock / lightening bolt isnt too shabby for dps.

Im enchancement spec'd so thats my point of view, My playstyle could be wrong, But I have had no problems with it at all.

Langston · Post by **Langston** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:11 am

You're counting on two things to happen: a windfury proc immediately following your shock and then three crits in a row. I think that if this is what you think your shaman is designed to do, a 1/100 chance occurrence, then you might be approaching it wrong.