The Pope is dead

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Postby xKALECx » Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:48 pm

Lyion wrote:The pope isn't an idol, he's the head of the Church Peter started. You know, the guy Jesus said to: "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church" in Matthew 16:18.


Thank you. As a Catholic (and believe it or not an in game friend of Mindia), it blows my mind to what steps people will go to place themselves in or out of a certain crowd. Everyone wants to come across as a rebelious leader and not a follower. Mostly this is done by making fun or bashing something that the person has little understanding of.

I am not going to type pages to describe the beliefs of Catholic church that so many people misunderstand. I am not going to argue the opinions of so many uneducated posters. I'll just sit back and be mesmerized by the number of people here that are satisfied in leading their lifes without digging deeper into facts and backgrounds of cultures and religions that don't agree with their own beliefs.
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Postby The Kizzy » Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:16 pm

AS I said, not trying to start a religious debate here but if people bow down to him and pray to him, in my book that makes him a religious idol.
Zanchief wrote:
Harrison wrote:I'm not dead


Fucker never listens to me. That's it, I'm an atheist.
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Postby Lyion » Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:18 pm

Nobody bows down to him or prays to him, they are praying FOR him.

Go read up on Catholicism, Kizzy.
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Postby The Kizzy » Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:21 pm

Im studying a different religion at the moment. It is why I asked.
Zanchief wrote:
Harrison wrote:I'm not dead


Fucker never listens to me. That's it, I'm an atheist.
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Postby xKALECx » Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:24 pm

Bow as a sign of reverence. Such as knights bowed to kings without worshiping. Such as soldiers salute to soldiers of higher rank. Your understanding of Catholics "praying to him" would be difficult for me to explain. It's a very easy misconception, but it's different than you see.
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Postby The Kizzy » Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:26 pm

Thanks. Its why I asked. You can't learn if you don't ask.
Zanchief wrote:
Harrison wrote:I'm not dead


Fucker never listens to me. That's it, I'm an atheist.
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Postby Captain Insano » Sat Apr 02, 2005 8:37 pm

Damn.... I voted for Ozzy Osbourne for the next pope.
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Postby Diekan » Sat Apr 02, 2005 8:50 pm

Anyone seen Dr. Robert Langdon around?
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Postby Phlegm » Sat Apr 02, 2005 8:57 pm

I think Langdon was last seen walking toward the Louvre with a pick axe and a shovel.
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Postby Tuggan » Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:20 pm

I was raised Catholic, and even though I consider myself a staunch athiest nowadays... it fucking pisses me off when people mouth off about the Catholic religion and the church.

While the pope and I dont see eye to eye on many issues, I have a ton of respect for the man. He did a great deal of good during his time.


Fuck you Mindia, you have absolutely no concept of christianity.
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Postby Rust » Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:53 pm

Kizzy wrote:AS I said, not trying to start a religious debate here but if people bow down to him and pray to him, in my book that makes him a religious idol.


Catholics don't pray to the Pope, who ever gave you such a silly idea?

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Postby Captain Insano » Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:24 am

I wonder if anyone has ever died for a few minutes, gone to hell and then been revived. I wonder what its really like, i'm sure i'm going there if there is such a place... but more than likely I will roam the universe as a ghostly space pirate exploding zombies and shit for eternity with horendus the robot.
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Postby Diekan » Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:26 am

Diabolik wrote:Everyone knows there's only one Idol.

<img src="http://www.legendheart.com/billy_idol.jpg">


Didn't he almost kill Rocky in Rocky IV?
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Postby Narrock » Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:08 am

I'd rather see people be Catholic than Atheist, that's for sure. I don't have a problem with Catholics per say... I have a problem with the RCC. The only problem I have with most Catholics I've run into is that they think they are superior to all other Christian sects. That is irritating, especially since many Catholics don't even know that most of their rituals and beliefs have more roots in paganism than Christianity. Don't believe me? Take a look at the "Rosary," saying "Hail Mary's," confessing your sins to a guy in a booth who is acting as an intercessory between you and God (when the Bible clearly says to confess your sins with your mouth to God, not another man). That's just a few examples. There are more. We could get into idolatry and Marilogy too. Catholics practice more "Tradition" than they teach what the Bible teaches us. Therein lies the problem that most non-Catholics have with the RCC. Many Catholics (as we have seen here) are too egotistical to admit that their faith gets into some outright funkiness and focuses on too much extra-Biblical things. (Extra-Biblical, meaning not in the Bible).

I actually pray for strength for the family of the Pope during this difficult time. The Pope himself was a good man... he never hurt anybody as far as I know, but the whole idea behind a "Pope" is very bizarre, and can even be taken as sacreligious.
The Bible says you cannot worship two leaders. You pray to Jesus, and Jesus alone. I have seen people kneel down, kissing the feet of the pope while tears stream from their eyes. That is worship, and that is just wrong. The Pope is just a man.
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Postby Langston » Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:25 am

I'm not getting into this SAME ARGUMENT with you again Mindia... suffice to say, you're still wrong.
Mindia wrote:I was wrong obviously.
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Postby Gargamellow » Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:38 pm

The pope wore more gold that Mr. T. Jesus teaches us to put aside such things and have faith in God. I am sorry for the pope for having to die. But I wonder what was going through is mind in his final hour. Was he ready to meet his God that he had sworn existed for his entire lifetime? Was there some fear in his heart that his life may have been a waste? Those are the questions I want answered. I am a Christian. But I wonder about things.
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Postby Phlegm » Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:16 pm

Has the Council of Cardinals ever select a non-European for pope?
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Postby Narrock » Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:42 pm

Tuggan wrote:I was raised Catholic, and even though I consider myself a staunch athiest nowadays... it fucking pisses me off when people mouth off about the Catholic religion and the church.

While the pope and I dont see eye to eye on many issues, I have a ton of respect for the man. He did a great deal of good during his time.


Fuck you Mindia, you have absolutely no concept of christianity.


And you do? lol
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Postby Narrock » Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:48 pm

Ugzugz wrote:I'm not getting into this SAME ARGUMENT with you again Mindia... suffice to say, you're still wrong.


If you're telling me I'm wrong, then you're saying that over 10 million+++ Christians worldwide are wrong. So, I'll just take it at face value, that it is your opinion that we're wrong... and I won't slap you down into the fetal position again, and then watch you run away with your tail tucked between your legs.

You have your interpretation, and I have mine. So let's just agree to disagree.
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Postby Ciladan » Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:52 pm

Mindia wrote:... confessing your sins to a guy in a booth who is acting as an intercessory between you and God (when the Bible clearly says to confess your sins with your mouth to God, not another man). ...

... The Bible says you cannot worship two leaders. You pray to Jesus, and Jesus alone. I have seen people kneel down, kissing the feet of the pope while tears stream from their eyes. That is worship, and that is just wrong. The Pope is just a man.


I don't agree with Mindia very often, but from my understanding of the bible this is correct.
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Postby Diekan » Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:54 pm

He's wrong....

You don't pray TO Jesus, you pray to God THROUGH Jesus.... that's why prayers end with "In Jesus' name... amen."
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Postby araby » Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:58 pm

Everybody has a problem with the chain of command with the Catholic church. It's because they don't understand and they confuse it with praying "to" someone other than Jesus.
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Postby Ciladan » Sun Apr 03, 2005 4:00 pm

I meant I agree that you aren't barred from communicating to God except through some "divine" person.
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Postby Narrock » Sun Apr 03, 2005 4:05 pm

This was taken from catholic.com:

Confession


Are all of our sins—past, present, and future—forgiven once and for all when we become Christians? Not according to the Bible or the early Church Fathers. Scripture nowhere states that our future sins are forgiven; instead, it teaches us to pray, "And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors" (Matt. 6:12).

The means by which God forgives sins after baptism is confession: "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9). Minor or venial sins can be confessed directly to God, but for grave or mortal sins, which crush the spiritual life out of the soul, God has instituted a different means for obtaining forgiveness—the sacrament known popularly as confession, penance, or reconciliation.

This sacrament is rooted in the mission God gave to Christ in his capacity as the Son of man on earth to go and forgive sins (cf. Matt. 9:6). Thus, the crowds who witnessed this new power "glorified God, who had given such authority to men" (Matt. 9:8; note the plural "men"). After his resurrection, Jesus passed on his mission to forgive sins to his ministers, telling them, "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you. . . . Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained" (John 20:21–23).

Since it is not possible to confess all of our many daily faults, we know that sacramental reconciliation is required only for grave or mortal sins—but it is required, or Christ would not have commanded it.

Over time, the forms in which the sacrament has been administered have changed. In the early Church, publicly known sins (such as apostasy) were often confessed openly in church, though private confession to a priest was always an option for privately committed sins. Still, confession was not just something done in silence to God alone, but something done "in church," as the Didache (A.D. 70) indicates.

Penances also tended to be performed before rather than after absolution, and they were much more strict than those of today (ten years’ penance for abortion, for example, was common in the early Church).

But the basics of the sacrament have always been there, as the following quotations reveal. Of special significance is their recognition that confession and absolution must be received by a sinner before receiving Holy Communion, for "[w]hoever . . . eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord" (1 Cor. 11:27).




Since it is not possible to confess all of our many daily faults, we know that sacramental reconciliation is required only for grave or mortal sins—but it is required, or Christ would not have commanded it.


LOL

Over time, the forms in which the sacrament has been administered have changed. In the early Church, publicly known sins (such as apostasy) were often confessed openly in church, though private confession to a priest was always an option for privately committed sins. Still, confession was not just something done in silence to God alone, but something done "in church," as the Didache (A.D. 70) indicates.


More proof of "tradition-over-Bible."

I rest my case. And I rest your case as well.
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Postby Narrock » Sun Apr 03, 2005 4:06 pm

Here's a couple interesting websites that expose catholicism:

http://www.answerbag.com/c_view.php/1381#q_14120

http://www.catholic.com/default.asp

Very informative websites that reinforce my claims.
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