F Bill Gates

[Martrae]

Mindia, I am far from liberal but you make ME want to slap some sense into you. You jump into every argument without backing anything up but with your own opinions or whatever your pastor told you is true.

Try using facts and figures and excerpts from credible sources. You'd be amazed at the difference it makes.

[Diekan]

I'm still waiting for him to answer my questions.

[Narrock]

Mindia, I am far from liberal but you make ME want to slap some sense into you. You jump into every argument without backing anything up but with your own opinions or whatever your pastor told you is true.

Try using facts and figures and excerpts from credible sources. You'd be amazed at the difference it makes.

See that's the whole thing right there. "Credible sources." We can argue all day for weeks on end on what is and what isn't a "credible source." Rust (Captain Google) is famous for quoting propaganda from websites that echo his beliefs.

The Bible cannot be used here on the NT as a "credible source" because of the many many people here who believe the Bible is just some worthless document written and translated by hundreds of people.

I've had lots of pastors. I finally found one who's teachings are verified and backed up by plenty of credible sources in my eyes.

[Narrock]

I'm still waiting for him to answer my questions.

Hey, it also pisses me off when I see corporate execs inflating their profitablity numbers so they get more people to invest in their truly failing company... and they sell all the stock and bail out as multi-millionaires, and the investors just lost all their money and pension funds, and retirement money, etc. That crap makes me sick.

Crooks like Kenneth Lay make me sick. But to lump in a business genious like Bill Gates,along with the likes of Kenneth Lay,is just wrong. Outsourcing is inevitable. As technology and scientific advances make constant progress, a lot of things get outdated and therefore outsourced. Companies must be efficient to be profitable. That's just life.

If you want to "stay on top" and stay ahead of the other guy, you better never stop learning, and always be willing to learn new skills to make yourself the natural choice for management when it comes time to deciding who gets the promotions and raises, and who gets laid off or not laid off.

[Diekan]

Well, for one I wouldn't exactly call Gates a "genious." He did, in fact, steal half of "Windows" from Jobs and other sources... but that's a different topic.

As for my questions toward you. I asked what the difference was between the Mexicans taking over your trade, and the Indians taking over the IT field. How are they different? You were clearly pissed off for having lost something that you obviously enjoyed doing very much. So, why cannot the IT people be just as pissed off? Your posts make it sound like it's ok for the IT people to lose their jobs, but not ok for the Mexicans to cause the displacement of the construction trades. That's where a lot of people here are calling your card on being hypocritical.

Secondly, I asked if you thought the contractor COULD have afforded to pay the "American" wages vs the "Mexican" wages. Do you think he was only looking out for his own wealth? Do you think he was already living a cozy life and just wanted more and more, and saw the oppertunity?

The point that you're not quite getting is that these companies CAN afford to pay a higher wage, they just refuse to.

[Narrock]

Well, for one I wouldn't exactly call Gates a "genious." He did, in fact, steal half of "Windows" from Jobs and other sources... but that's a different topic.

As for my questions toward you. I asked what the difference was between the Mexicans taking over your trade, and the Indians taking over the IT field. How are they different? You were clearly pissed off for having lost something that you obviously enjoyed doing very much. So, why cannot the IT people be just as pissed off? Your posts make it sound like it's ok for the IT people to lose their jobs, but not ok for the Mexicans to cause the displacement of the construction trades. That's where a lot of people here are calling your card on being hypocritical.

Secondly, I asked if you thought the contractor COULD have afforded to pay the "American" wages vs the "Mexican" wages. Do you think he was only looking out for his own wealth? Do you think he was already living a cozy life and just wanted more and more, and saw the oppertunity?

The point that you're not quite getting is that these companies CAN afford to pay a higher wage, they just refuse to.

Ok, yes... everybody has the right to complain if something is bothering them at work. But for Arlos to go on and on about it with a lengthy dissertation trying to convince everybody of his argument was getting old and it made him sound like a serious whiner. I know he's educated. I know he has somewhat of an IQ, and he probably works very hard at his job, but that's not the point I was making...

I don't know if that contractor could have afforded natural-born Americans, rather than illegals, or even legal immigrants. I didn't ask him any financial questions.

[Ironfang]

Alrighty then.

I have now totally lost track of this thread and what it is about.

One comment tho Diekan, Microsoft pays WAY more than $50k per employee of their corporation, especially when you consider cash paid + benefits. They do make a monster margin on their product, but what does anyone expect in successful software (no comment on whether it is any good).

"Corporate greed" is not new. It has been going on for the entire length of humanities existence, or at least since the Dutch East Indies company was formed [points awarded to anyone who finds an older company, I think it was the first formed with share capital, but I am likely wrong here].

The entire Western world is in for a big time hurt over the next 10-20 years as we will be forced to "export" a large portion of our service jobs to the "3rd" world where the people are willing to work harder for far less money than we feel is a fair wage.

Go take a look at the doctors, scientists and engineers in school right now. I will bet that well over 60% of all the classes are asian and this "trend" is because the North American society in general has pretty much determined that Lawyers and Accountants and Investment Bankers are the only way to make money.

Individual cases aside the entire Western world is pretty much fat and lazy and entrenched in the idea that they are entitled to something that will continue to be harder to get. Take a look at the attitude of teens today and tell me that you see some overall level of desire and a work ethic that exceeds that of their parents. It does not exist, and as long as we have a culture that promotes this type of attitude the US, Canada and other countries are going to be pounded by foreign competition for manufacturing and services.

IT is just following behind manufacturing for losses of jobs to those cheaper markets where they can be trained almost as quickly and have far more incentive to work hard for less cash.

[Gargamellow]

steal

Doesn't take a genius to be a thief.

[Gidan]

Bill Gates isn't a genius. He is a smart business man who sold a product that didn't exist. His very intelligent staff/friends at the time were the ones who took the product that they stole and started on the way to windows. He did not create windows, he created the company name and marketed it.

Today, he doesn't do a damn thing.

[Ironfang]

What senior corporate executive "does a damn thing" other than draw a really stupidly large paycheck?

Once a company hits a certain size (which Microsoft is long since way past) the senior people run the company and administer policies and direction. They no longer actually make things work, they don't have time and cost too much money.

[Lyion]

There are a lot of execs out there who dont engage in brutal underhanded anti trust methods of controlling markets and stifling innovation.

MS has done more to set back the US IT market than anyone, due to their very underhanded and nasty way of leveraging their desktop market share into other areas.

They have yet to create or innovate anything, just bundle and market in a superior, anti competitive way.