GM and Ford.. Healthcare costs will kill them

[Rust]

As soon as more doctors and nurses start setting up practices and we can fly there for surgeries at 1/100th the cost the US Medical system will freak and we'll see reform.

This is nearer than many might think.

it's here already. I went to Israel and did my full dental work. It was estimated by 4 difent dentist here for over 12k, it cost me there 1.8k

The fact that Israel can give its citizens decent health care of course being partly paid for by the US taxpayer.

--R.

[Ganzo]

As soon as more doctors and nurses start setting up practices and we can fly there for surgeries at 1/100th the cost the US Medical system will freak and we'll see reform.

This is nearer than many might think.

it's here already. I went to Israel and did my full dental work. It was estimated by 4 difent dentist here for over 12k, it cost me there 1.8k

The fact that Israel can give its citizens decent health care of course being partly paid for by the US taxpayer.

--R.

Israel's gov. health care does not work they way you think. People there pay huge tax fo health every month, way more than my health insurance here costs. On top of that dental and eye is not covered.

[Martrae]

Booming? You're kidding right? The economy will be "booming" when families can actually afford to survive without both parents having to work 3 jobs between them to pay the mortgage. Right now the only thing that's "booming" is the wallet sizes of corporate America.

Considering that's been the trend for MANY years now, you can hardly blame it on Bush. Plus all the good news about the 700,000 new jobs created in the last 3 months, that's huge. Didn't you just benefit from this?

[Lyion]

As soon as more doctors and nurses start setting up practices and we can fly there for surgeries at 1/100th the cost the US Medical system will freak and we'll see reform.

This is nearer than many might think.

it's here already. I went to Israel and did my full dental work. It was estimated by 4 difent dentist here for over 12k, it cost me there 1.8k

The fact that Israel can give its citizens decent health care of course being partly paid for by the US taxpayer.

I wasn't going to say it, but I thought it.....

[Captain Insano]

hey... at least Bush is going to stop homo's from getting married. after all... isn't that why some of you voted that ass monkey BACK into office? bet you're kicking yourselves in the ass now.

not really... Bush is a moran ; ) but John Kerry was and is still worse. I don't vote communists into public office sry.

[Diekan]

Booming? You're kidding right? The economy will be "booming" when families can actually afford to survive without both parents having to work 3 jobs between them to pay the mortgage. Right now the only thing that's "booming" is the wallet sizes of corporate America.

Considering that's been the trend for MANY years now, you can hardly blame it on Bush. Plus all the good news about the 700,000 new jobs created in the last 3 months, that's huge. Didn't you just benefit from this?

No.

I fell into my position by pure and absolute luck. My job wasn't "created" it already existed... one person retired and I was called up.

I love it when you Republican wanna be's start spouting off numbers about job growth, but ALWAYS fail to report the TYPES of jobs associated with their numbers.

So, let's have it... what kinds of jobs are we talking about here? Surely, you're not going to say tech, engineering, science, manufacturing, and so on. Because those jobs have gone (or are in the process of going) bye bye... so please tell us what these jobs are.

I'd give you a Weclome to Hintmart, but that might Mcruin it for everyone else.

[Martrae]

http://finance.myway.com/ht/nw/bus/2005 ... 38434.html

The strong data were a balm for financial markets after recent nervousness that recent data might point to a spreading economic soft spot. Major stock indexes rose after the report but the gains were checked by heightened concern over prospective interest-rate rises. The major indexes closed on Friday virtually unchanged.

"Not only is the April report strong, but it's stronger than what the summary suggests," said economist Richard DeKaser of National City Corp. in Cleveland. "We have huge upward revisions. We see hours worked rising sharply in the month of April, which indicates how the workforce is being utilized."

Average hourly earnings in private industry climbed five cents to a record $16 in the month, while the average workweek increased to 33.9 hours from 33.7 in March.

Damn...'Hintmart' and 'Mcruin' musta gave out raises and increased hours too. I know that would make the stock market happy. /sarcasm off


Your new job was still available when that person retired, right? Your stock portfolio is increasing, right?

[Diekan]

Holy shit! 16 dollars an hour!?!? Let's do some math...

I am just making these numbers up... so play along. Per month.

Rent - 800
Car Payment - 300
Electric - 120
Water - 30
Phone - 60
Food (for a family of 3) - 500 (and I am sure that's actually low)
Gas - 100
Total - 1880

Total income - (16 x 160) = 2560

After deductions (we'll call it 27% for everything) - 1868

Wow - you're still in the RED by 12 dollars.

So, mom and dad BOTH have to work to make ends meet and to try and put some kind of savings away... while the cost of living continues to rise and wages raise a whole whopping FIVE CENTS.

Meanwhile little Jimmy and Jane are being raised by complete strangers at some day care center.

Besides, I call bullshit on those numbers. I don't know a single person (and yes I actually know a LOT of people) who only work 33.9 hours a week... where the hell they get that number?

Yes, I got lucky... I got VERY lucky and I count my blessings every day for it... but that doesn't mean I am going sit back and watch as my fellow citizens suffer either.

I am not one of those people who'll sit back and say, "whew I got mine... fuck everyone else..." as seems to be the common mind set of the GOP peanut gallery.

I'd have no problem with people making 16 dollars an hour... IF 16 dollars an hour were enough to live on, without having to restrict yourself to living in da hood. And, by living I don't mean folks who make 16 an hour should be out buying plasma TV's either. But, this is the friggen United States for Christ's sake. People should be able to buy a fucking loaf of bread and not have to work 3 hours to pay for it.

I DO blame the GOP for this mess... maybe it did start during the Clinton years... but that's not the point. Dubya and his collection of ass clowns have done absolutely NOTHING to correct the situation and that son of a bitch has had 5 years to make a difference. Five fucking cents an hour is BULLSHIT. I am sick of watching every day people struggling to get by... I am sick of seeing kids being raised by institutions instead of parents... I am sick of corporate America getting away with murder by slowly destroying the middle class for their own selfish gain... while Dubya does nothing but pander to THEIR whims and needs while feeding you all a bunch of bullshit how he's YOUR champion and you fools eating up like a T-bone steak.

[Martrae]

Holy cow Diekan, why not blame the man for the Holocaust and the death of Christ while you're at it.

It's all averages, you do know what average means? Some people work more hours and/or make more money per hour than others.

You know my hub makes about the average and I still stay at home with the kids (3 of them) so you can't give me that whine about mom having to work. Its the people that are more interested in toys than their kids that do that. They HAVE to have the house in the latest housing development. They HAVE to have a brand new car all the time and the new car payment that goes with it. They HAVE to have the PDAs and the laptops and the flat screen TVs and latest games and movies all the other extras that aren't necessary to live a good life.

All those 'things' are nice, but they aren't necessary. So it really boils down to wants. Parents that want bigger and better things put their kids in institutions and those that are willing to sacrifice a little bit don't.

[Martrae]

Go me...2 derails in the same thread.

[mofish]

As soon as more doctors and nurses start setting up practices and we can fly there for surgeries at 1/100th the cost the US Medical system will freak and we'll see reform.

This is nearer than many might think.

I just saw a report on medical tourism. There is a world-class awesome hospital in Thailand called Bumrungrad. And one in India also. You can even use your Thailand Air skymiles to pay for your checkups there. It looks like a 5 star hotel. There are no candystripers or orderlies. Every single person that attends to you is a RN or a doctor. And the cost is about 10-15% of care in the US.

There was a man in north Louisiana they focused on that was going to die because he could not afford a quintuple bypass here in the states. Was going to run him $100K+. He flew to Thailand and had it done for like $12k.

[Ironfang]

Diekan wrote :
"Considering this ISN'T Japan or Europe that argument isn't valid. Europeans and the Japanese do NOT drive as much as we do. Their cities are much more compact (and countries much smaller), thus they depend a great deal more on both public transportation and bicycling than we do / can. The average US citizen lives what? 20 to 40 minutes from their job? The US is much more "spread out" than most other countries. Thus, we have a legit dependancy on our vehicles... we don't just use them "for fun." 5 dollars a gallon for gas doesn't have near the effect on a person living in Tokyo as does 2 dollars a gallon for someone living in Columbus, Ohio. If you can't see that then you need glasses."

How the hell can anyone buy into this fucked up kind of argument? The USA is the LARGEST user of gas in the world. They are the largest user because the price of gas is so low. Saying that because Japan and European cities are closer together means that they use more public transportation is ridiculous. They use public transit, like major US cities, because parking and gas costs are so high. The fact that Americans have chosen to live so far from work is their own fault. In a larger, older city the commute times are just as bad, if not worse than in a spread out North American city. More people in a similar sized area = more traffic messes for public transit.

If the US taxed gas at the same rate as the next lowest country (in this case Canada) the cost would increase by approximately 30%. If that was the case I bet that the US would begin to understand the concept that you don't have to drive everywhere with only one person per car.

And before you can complain that US cities are more spread out because they have room, last I heard Canada has far more than the US does. Sure the older cities in Europe and Japan are more crowded, however gas prices are a NATIONAL level of taxation, not a city based price.

The US relies on foreign oil to run its business like everyone else does. They pay the same price that everyone else does for this oil. If the market says prices are up 50% get used to it, we all have to pay a hell of a lot more than we used to.

It is only because the US does not tax gas as highly as other countries that the entire "entitlement" mentality exists today. If gas cost $3+ per gallon for the last 20 years I can guarantee that people would not be living in suburbs and buying a car for every family member and saying that they need them. Instead, like most major cities in the world, the inner city would not have rotted and had everyone move out and away from all of the slums that a screwed up social welfare system helped to create with ghetto's and projects.

[Phlegm]

The US will never tax gas as high as other country because the US auto industry lobby wont allow it.

[Lyion]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/11/busin ... nted=print

Its not just the Auto Industry.. Untied is going to screw its retirees because benefits are so high a cost...

[Ironfang]

The US culture believes that it is their "right" to have things cheaper than anyone else.

Unfortunately, when the costs start to come home, by that I mean healthcare and pension/social assistance, the US is going to be screwed.

If you think that the United deal is bad, wait until you are in your 50's looking at the shambles of a not-funded system and how bad the benefits are.