How many have you read of the top 10?

[Tossica]

Communism is not pure evil.

Because you don't understand it.

No, you don't understand it. The premise behind it is far from evil.

[Narrock]

By your reasoning, Chistianity is far more evil than Communism. Why, just look at all the atrocities commited in the name of God.

Here we go again...

I'm done with this ignorant thread.

[Tossica]

By your reasoning, Chistianity is far more evil than Communism. Why, just look at all the atrocities commited in the name of God.

Here we go again...

I'm done with this ignorant thread.

Good. [smiley poster=angry]GTFO[/smiley]

[10sun]

1,2,4,8, & 9.

On Liberty
Origin of the Species
Madness and Civilization
Introduction to Psychoanalysis
Descent of Man

and I agree that properly implemented communism is not a bad idea, a far cry from evil. All current and past incarnations on a national scale have been fraught with corruption and poor leadership. Simply put, there is not a leader out there who could run a communist nation with any degree of efficiency due to human nature.

-Adam

[xaoshaen]

By your reasoning, Chistianity is far more evil than Communism. Why, just look at all the atrocities commited in the name of God.

Here we go again...

I'm done with this ignorant thread.

Hey, it's your reasoning! Don't blame me if it's wrong.

[xaoshaen]

and I agree that properly implemented communism is not a bad idea, a far cry from evil. All current and past incarnations on a national scale have been fraught with corruption and poor leadership. Simply put, there is not a leader out there who could run a communist nation with any degree of efficiency due to human nature.

Oh, it's a terrible idea, it's just not evil.

[xaoshaen]

Communism is not pure evil.

Because you don't understand it.

So 'splain it to us, Mindia. Give us an example of an evil Communist government.

[Yamori]

Soviet Russia, Cambodia, China ect were all communist governments in the first stage of communism.

Thats the problem with communism: it never gets past the stage of dictatorship, and never dissolves into a workers paradise.

[xaoshaen]

Soviet Russia, Cambodia, China ect were all communist governments in the first stage of communism.

Thats the problem with communism: it never gets past the stage of dictatorship, and never dissolves into a workers paradise.

Actually, none of those governments were ever Communist. Look at the basic principles of Mao, Pol Pot, and Lenin. They diverge radically from Communism.

[Lyion]

The cornerstones of communism as defined by the Manifesto are:

Abolition of Private Property.
Heavy Progressive Income Tax.
Abolition of Rights of Inheritance.
Confiscation of Property Rights.
Central Bank.
Government Ownership of Communication and Transportation.
Government Ownership of Factories and Agriculture.
Government Control of Labor.
Corporate Farms and Regional Planning.
Government Control of Education.

Compare that to what you are used to in the US or Canada. It's not difficult to see why communism can be labelled 'evil'.

You can argue all you want that it COULD be good, but its been shown to be bad in every example of government we've had, and we've certainly had a lot. It has murdered millions and commited countless atrocities, with little done on the good side.

Given the results of communism in the 20th century, I'd say it's fair to label it 'evil'. There are no redeeming qualities in communism. It crushes the spirit, kills competition and discovery, and the biggest crime of communism is it's proven to remove morality from the masses.

Even Marx at the end denounced it.

[xaoshaen]

You can argue all you want that it COULD be good, but its been shown to be bad in every example of government we've had, and we've certainly had a lot. It has murdered millions and commited countless atrocities, with little done on the good side.

Except that we have yet to have a single major example of a Communist government. Tough to commit atrocities in the absence of existence.

Given the results of communism in the 20th century, I'd say it's fair to label it 'evil'. There are no redeeming qualities in communism. It crushes the spirit, kills competition and discovery, and the biggest crime of communism is it's proven to remove morality from the masses.

Again, there aren't any actual results of communism in the 20th century, at least not on a national level. So, no, it's not fair to label it 'evil'.

[Lyion]

Except you are wrong. There are many examples of COMMUNIST governments.

Prove to me USSR, China and others did not follow the cornerstones of communism? They most certainly did.

[xaoshaen]

Except you are wrong. There are many examples of COMMUNIST governments.

Prove to me USSR, China and others did not follow the cornerstones of communism? They most certainly did.

No, no they didn't. The USSR was never even close to communism. There's a reason it's called Leninism, which was followed by Stalinism. Then there was that whole cult of personality thing going on in China, with its Maoism. Just because people like to call them communist systems doesn't make it so, any more than the civics-challenged folks calling the U.S.A. a democracy makes it so.

[Lyion]

CIA Factbook calls the USSR and China communist forms of government. http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac ... os/ch.html

They are right. You are wrong. It is a communist state.

You saying they are not communist does not change the fact they are based on communism, regardless of your personal opinion or references to Stalins cult of personality, your views on Leninism, Marxism, or whatever.

You bring no facts to bear to support your claims. Divergent branches notwithstanding, China and the USSR were communist forms of Government.

Read the manifesto and see what it takes to be Communist. Realize Idealistic communism is not communism as yolu mistakenly seem to infer.

We have had many communist states. That is a FACT. There will never be an IDEALISTIC communist state, because it is a pipe dream.

[Tossica]

It may be a "pipe dream" but calling it evil is ignorant. There is nothing evil about it.

[Lyion]

I guess there is nothing evil about Fascism either. It is merely centralized government.

[Tossica]

We're not talking about Fascism, are we?

[Lyion]

No, we're talking communism, and the fact communist countries have commited countless atrocities and murders, and yet this form of government is merely misunderstood or misapplied. Your logic applies to fascism, so I figured it'd be good to make a point.

Show me a communist state that isn't evil, and I'll buy that communism isn't bad.

[Harrison]

They can't it's impossible.

They will always go back to the base, however unstable and weak, that communism as a concept isn't "evil". Which is ENTIRELY irrelevent... A concept is nothing without it being put into practice. When that concept is put into practice in many different forms over the years and is proven to be completely evil, it is common sense that dictates such to be fucking wrong.

It has been shown time and again that it is in practice and always will be with human beings, evil. Equality is a farce and trying to press it on an entire nation of people is fucking pure evil.

[Tossica]

Wrong.

[xaoshaen]

CIA Factbook calls the USSR and China communist forms of government. http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac ... os/ch.html

They are right. You are wrong. It is a communist state.

Hahah, you're quoting CIA public relations material. Why not throw in some McCarthiest diatribes while you're at it.

You saying they are not communist does not change the fact they are based on communism, regardless of your personal opinion or references to Stalins cult of personality, your views on Leninism, Marxism, or whatever.

You saying they are communist does not change the fact they are only nominally based on communism, regardless of your personal opinion or references to Stalins cult of personality, your views on Leninism, Marxism, or whatever.[/quote]

You bring no facts to bear to support your claims. Divergent branches notwithstanding, China and the USSR were communist forms of Government.

You bring no facts to bear to support your claims. Nomenclatural similarities notwithstanding, China and the USSR were never communist forms of Government.

Read the manifesto and see what it takes to be Communist. Realize Idealistic communism is not communism as yolu mistakenly seem to infer.

Read the manifesto and see what it takes to be Communist. Realize communism is not Stalinism as yolu mistakenly seem to infer

We have had many communist states. That is a FACT. There will never be an IDEALISTIC communist state, because it is a pipe dream.

We have never had communist states. That is a FACT. There will never be a communist state, because it is a pipe dream.

You're relying on rhetoric now, demonstrated by my ability to reutilize the same statements by swapping subjects. You're also fixated on a McCarthyist definition of communism, wherein every dictator, penny-ante or Soviet, was deemed to be communist. It's funny that you would refer to communism's idealogical polar opposite, facism, as "merely centralized government", while conveniently ignoring the fact the the USSR and China epitomized the centralization of power through by the national government.

The central doctrine of communism is the liberation of the proletariat. Go ahead, demonstrate how either the USSR or China met this critera. Nothing that so perverts this fundamental doctrine to a personal or regime oriented powergrab can be considered communist in even the loosest sense of the term. In point of fact, the peasantry of both the USSR and China became serfs of the state. There was never a communal rule, but dictatorship. There was never communal property, but bureaucratic ownership.

[xaoshaen]

No, we're talking communism, and the fact communist countries have commited countless atrocities and murders, and yet this form of government is merely misunderstood or misapplied. Your logic applies to fascism, so I figured it'd be good to make a point.

Show me a communist state that isn't evil, and I'll buy that communism isn't bad.

You can't use an innocuous example of a communist state, because it's practically impossible to establish one for reason enumerated earlier.

This doesn't excuse the improper assignment of the term "communist" to anyone the U.S. designated an enemy during the Cold War.

[mappatazee]

This list is absolute poppycock.
I've only read 1 on the list. I notice there's Ralph Nader's "Unsafe at Any Speed" as an honorable mention. What do they hate about that?

[xaoshaen]

They can't it's impossible.

Exactly, for all the reasons mentioned earlier.

They will always go back to the base, however unstable and weak, that communism as a concept isn't "evil". Which is ENTIRELY irrelevent... A concept is nothing without it being put into practice. When that concept is put into practice in many different forms over the years and is proven to be completely evil, it is common sense that dictates such to be fucking wrong.

Don't be an ass. The Nazi perversions of Nietzche's philosophies don't make the original statements evil, it makes the Nazis evil.

It has been shown time and again that it is in practice and always will be with human beings, evil. Equality is a farce and trying to press it on an entire nation of people is fucking pure evil.

Except that it's never been fucking tried. Every time it's been attempted, it's either been subverted by people who see an opportunity to turn the process to their own ends, or it's been put into place as a facade designed to cynically manipulate the populace.

If pushing equality on a nation is evil, then I guess our version of a republic is fucking pure evil, right?

[Yamori]

It may be a "pipe dream" but calling it evil is ignorant. There is nothing evil about it.

I've given my reasons for why I think its evil, even apart from the murder its regimes have all committed.

1) It necessitates stealing on a massive scale to be set up. Where do you think communists plan on getting tools of production necessary to maintain a country? Are they going to fall from the sky? No, they will come from taking them away from the people who built them.

2) It necessitates dictatorship in order to be initiated. It says it right there in the manifesto that this is one of the first steps, if I'm remembering correctly.

3) It infringes on economic rights. Any personal wealth that someone worked hard to create is taken away. It blatantly advocates abolishing private property, and the dictatorship needs to command people to work as they see fit in order to set up the system.

I find people defending this barbaric ideology to be astonishing.