How is it that every damn CEO in North America seems to get paid so much because the super small handful of competent ones, like Jack Welch, got well paid?
To me this concept that someone who runs a large company for a few years, yet gets a guaranteed $10 million + massive stock options, is unreal.
I mean, are you telling me that their job is that hard that they are worth millions just to make a few difficult decisions that they make someone else do all the work to implement?
The best example I saw was when Daimler purchased Chrysler and the top 3 paid people in the combined company were working in Chrysler. This was after 5 straight years of losses in the purchased company vs. the CEO of Daimler whose company (at the time) was hugely profitable and was getting less than half the compensation.
Damn makes me wish I was part of that old boys network.
(and I work as a mid-senior finance management type so I make good money and know a large amount of what these executives do)
Are the monstrously well paid CEO's worth it?
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Wrath Child
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Being a CEO is pretty time and mind demanding work. You are in essence giving up your life to a company for several years in exchange for tons of cash.
I don't know exactly how most CEO salaries are determined, but I do agree that the bad ones shouldn't be getting paid that much. The really good ones deserve whatever they want. :P
Still, the companies themselves decide who gets paid what, so no matter how crappy it may get, we don't have a say in it because it isn't our business.
I don't know exactly how most CEO salaries are determined, but I do agree that the bad ones shouldn't be getting paid that much. The really good ones deserve whatever they want. :P
Still, the companies themselves decide who gets paid what, so no matter how crappy it may get, we don't have a say in it because it isn't our business.
-Yamori
AKA ~~Baron Boshie of the Nameless~~
AKA ~~Baron Boshie of the Nameless~~
By the example of the CEO of the company I work for, I'd say that yes, he deserves every penny he gets.. though it's rare that he actually spends those pennies on himself
I'm of the belief that CEO's like ours are rare, though, so I'd tend to agree that many are undeserving
I'm of the belief that CEO's like ours are rare, though, so I'd tend to agree that many are undeserving
"I think you may be confusing government running amok with government doing stuff you don't like. See, you're in the minority now. It's supposed to taste like a shit taco." - Jon Stewart
Damn the man, eh? You try running a company. Although a recent expose on Wal-Mart compared to older companies showed the displacement of wealth distribution very tilted toward upper management. Wal-Mart sucks the employees dry and pays ten times more than older companies to their top personnel. Lame.
That is exactly the problem labbats. Wal-mart definitely isnt the only company that does that. Id say more companies than not do it, actually. Is it their right?
Sure, if you want to end up like some 2-bit south american country, with a few rich people and tons of poor people. Been heading that way steadily for a couple of decades now anyway. The ever-shrinking US middle class. Uh oh, did I just back-door advocate 'redistribution?' Get the rope!
Sure, if you want to end up like some 2-bit south american country, with a few rich people and tons of poor people. Been heading that way steadily for a couple of decades now anyway. The ever-shrinking US middle class. Uh oh, did I just back-door advocate 'redistribution?' Get the rope!
mofish wrote:That is exactly the problem labbats. Wal-mart definitely isnt the only company that does that. Id say more companies than not do it, actually. Is it their right?
Sure, if you want to end up like some 2-bit south american country, with a few rich people and tons of poor people. Been heading that way steadily for a couple of decades now anyway. The ever-shrinking US middle class. Uh oh, did I just back-door advocate 'redistribution?' Get the rope!
the problem isn't walmart
the problem is lazy assed fucktards who think working at walmart should be a viable career
anyone stupid enough to think that working a job that should be reserved for high school kids and college students should pay enough to support a family needs to fall off the gene pool
Actually Wal Mart does have a very nice system set up where you can move up quickly. After being employed for 6 months you can apply for the assistant manager training program, which consists of 17 weeks of paid training, and then a starting salary of 30,000 a year and benefits. You need no college education whatsoever for this. The downside, of course, is that these assistant managers need to be available 24/7 and often work more than 40 hours a week, in fact, it isn't uncommon to hear of 60-80 hour weeks, but that is mostly for the ambitious folks that are trying to prove themselves and move up the ranks. It's not hard to get into that 300k+ range if you have the passion, drive, teamwork/people skills, integrity, a little bit of brains and no problems with authority.
Yes, a huge majority of Wal Mart's employees leave each year, and that's a damn good reason to pay the ones that stick around considerably more. I myself was employed there for only a couple months before leaving, but the vast majority of the workforce that does leave are the highschool kids. If you stay working for a company like Wal Mart and deliver at least what's expected of your position and can keep a cool head/positive attitude, you will be able to make a successful career there. Of course, working for Wal Mart, or retail in general, might not make you as happy or fulfilled as, say, working for Blizzard Entertainment, but it sure as hell is an easy route to valuable management experience that will help you in your search for the right job, the right career.
Yes, a huge majority of Wal Mart's employees leave each year, and that's a damn good reason to pay the ones that stick around considerably more. I myself was employed there for only a couple months before leaving, but the vast majority of the workforce that does leave are the highschool kids. If you stay working for a company like Wal Mart and deliver at least what's expected of your position and can keep a cool head/positive attitude, you will be able to make a successful career there. Of course, working for Wal Mart, or retail in general, might not make you as happy or fulfilled as, say, working for Blizzard Entertainment, but it sure as hell is an easy route to valuable management experience that will help you in your search for the right job, the right career.
Tikker wrote:mofish wrote:That is exactly the problem labbats. Wal-mart definitely isnt the only company that does that. Id say more companies than not do it, actually. Is it their right?
Sure, if you want to end up like some 2-bit south american country, with a few rich people and tons of poor people. Been heading that way steadily for a couple of decades now anyway. The ever-shrinking US middle class. Uh oh, did I just back-door advocate 'redistribution?' Get the rope!
the problem isn't walmart
the problem is lazy assed fucktards who think working at walmart should be a viable career
anyone stupid enough to think that working a job that should be reserved for high school kids and college students should pay enough to support a family needs to fall off the gene pool
Dont forget that nice jobs in this country are rare these days. Gotta bring home a paycheck somehow. All our high paying jobs are being shipped out with our Gov't stamp of approval.
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Captain Insano
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Re: Are the monstrously well paid CEO's worth it?
Ironfang wrote:How is it that every damn CEO in North America seems to get paid so much because the super small handful of competent ones, like Jack Welch, got well paid?
To me this concept that someone who runs a large company for a few years, yet gets a guaranteed $10 million + massive stock options, is unreal.
I mean, are you telling me that their job is that hard that they are worth millions just to make a few difficult decisions that they make someone else do all the work to implement?
The best example I saw was when Daimler purchased Chrysler and the top 3 paid people in the combined company were working in Chrysler. This was after 5 straight years of losses in the purchased company vs. the CEO of Daimler whose company (at the time) was hugely profitable and was getting less than half the compensation.
Damn makes me wish I was part of that old boys network.
(and I work as a mid-senior finance management type so I make good money and know a large amount of what these executives do)
You're about as smart as an inflatable ass-donut.
Just a little infoz for you.... CEO's don't just slide into the position and get handed multi million dollar salaries. Most if not all devote their entire lives and most of their waking hours into achieving the position of CEO. Unfortunately not all are successful and more often than not the markets and outside factors don't work in their favor also leading to their lack of success.
Are they worth their salaries? Hell yes. As long as they aren't Enron'ing and cheating their asses off yes they are worth every dime. Those CEO's are often times the reason hundreds of thousands of people too stupid or lazy or uneducated can make any living whatsoever.
Most don't work their entire lives just for the good of the people... there has to be rewards and compensation at the end... otherwise 99.9 percent of mankind wouldn't do anything but the bare minimum..... Kinda like what would happen if black people ran the world or women, or communists or black women communists.
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Darcler:
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mappatazee
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Re: Are the monstrously well paid CEO's worth it?
Captain_Insano wrote:Kinda like what would happen if black people ran the world
Come on now
Gee, CEO's work hard for their money? No shit. However, for everyone who makes it to that level there are another 99 men and women who work just as hard and who don't make it.
Yes, I know that this is a high end job, however where the hell does it say that some reject like Dick Brown, formerly CEO of EDS Inc. deserved to make $10 million annually, plus large stock options, to drive his company into the ground?
The issue that I have with the compensation of CEO's is not that they get paid for performance, but rather that once a "market value" has been established by the old boys network, they all get to point out comparables and get paid a ridiculous sum of money. Once that is done, they get monstrous stock option plans that almost guarantee them to go out and maximize short term performance in order to get a higher selling price.
When of course they can no longer make these insane short term goals anymore, they jump ship to another company, get paid a lot there and leave the shareholders and employee's of their former company holding the bag.
Have you ever worked at a company that fires 5-10% of their staff annually, and does not pay bonuses in order to make some stupid market demanded performance targets? I have, those companies say that their value is in their people, yet the first chance that management gets to maximize their personal net worth they do and screw the rest of the workers with 100 stock options.
There is no reason in my mind that a large company that pays senior level executives $300k-$500k should have to pay the CEO an annual price tag of $5 million. There is no way that a CEO is doing work that is worth 10 times as much as other senior executives.
That is my bitch, and yes, if you think it is communist to say FUCK OFF as an investor and employee, then I guess I am a commie.
Yes, I know that this is a high end job, however where the hell does it say that some reject like Dick Brown, formerly CEO of EDS Inc. deserved to make $10 million annually, plus large stock options, to drive his company into the ground?
The issue that I have with the compensation of CEO's is not that they get paid for performance, but rather that once a "market value" has been established by the old boys network, they all get to point out comparables and get paid a ridiculous sum of money. Once that is done, they get monstrous stock option plans that almost guarantee them to go out and maximize short term performance in order to get a higher selling price.
When of course they can no longer make these insane short term goals anymore, they jump ship to another company, get paid a lot there and leave the shareholders and employee's of their former company holding the bag.
Have you ever worked at a company that fires 5-10% of their staff annually, and does not pay bonuses in order to make some stupid market demanded performance targets? I have, those companies say that their value is in their people, yet the first chance that management gets to maximize their personal net worth they do and screw the rest of the workers with 100 stock options.
There is no reason in my mind that a large company that pays senior level executives $300k-$500k should have to pay the CEO an annual price tag of $5 million. There is no way that a CEO is doing work that is worth 10 times as much as other senior executives.
That is my bitch, and yes, if you think it is communist to say FUCK OFF as an investor and employee, then I guess I am a commie.
Actually, the problem is most CEO's now a days do not work hard. They walk in, get given a Golden parachute, and if things go south, bail out with millions. If they do well, they take the credit despite the fact 90% of the time they are just along for the ride.
The days of someone working their way through the ranks and becoming CEO seem further and further away. Now, you have hired exeutive help with 'contacts', which means they know other executives hired on to other companies and make 'good old boy' deals.
The CEOs who made their companies are indeed worth every penny they earn. Except those types generally are more worried about the company and do not hurt it with their salary.
Ironfang is spot on. CEO's for larger companies make way more than they are worth.
And thus is the complete fucking idiocy of the American System. Companies are based on stock, and the world revolves around this. It's why a search engine company with next to nothing is worth more than Time Warner with it's vast holdings.
The days of someone working their way through the ranks and becoming CEO seem further and further away. Now, you have hired exeutive help with 'contacts', which means they know other executives hired on to other companies and make 'good old boy' deals.
The CEOs who made their companies are indeed worth every penny they earn. Except those types generally are more worried about the company and do not hurt it with their salary.
Ironfang is spot on. CEO's for larger companies make way more than they are worth.
Ironfang wrote:Have you ever worked at a company that fires 5-10% of their staff annually, and does not pay bonuses in order to make some stupid market demanded performance targets? I have, those companies say that their value is in their people, yet the first chance that management gets to maximize their personal net worth they do and screw the rest of the workers with 100 stock options
And thus is the complete fucking idiocy of the American System. Companies are based on stock, and the world revolves around this. It's why a search engine company with next to nothing is worth more than Time Warner with it's vast holdings.
What saves a man is to take a step. Then another step.
– C. S. Lewis
– C. S. Lewis
I doubt anyone on this board could handle the headaches and the juggling that most CEOs do on any given day. It's a narrow field for hiring, and justly so. However, spreading the wealth would make for a much smarter return. As would contracts that only pay off when goals are met and beaten, rather than a blanket payment regardless of results.
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Captain Insano
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Ironfang wrote:Gee, CEO's work hard for their money? No shit. However, for everyone who makes it to that level there are another 99 men and women who work just as hard and who don't make it.
Yes, I know that this is a high end job, however where the hell does it say that some reject like Dick Brown, formerly CEO of EDS Inc. deserved to make $10 million annually, plus large stock options, to drive his company into the ground?
The issue that I have with the compensation of CEO's is not that they get paid for performance, but rather that once a "market value" has been established by the old boys network, they all get to point out comparables and get paid a ridiculous sum of money. Once that is done, they get monstrous stock option plans that almost guarantee them to go out and maximize short term performance in order to get a higher selling price.
When of course they can no longer make these insane short term goals anymore, they jump ship to another company, get paid a lot there and leave the shareholders and employee's of their former company holding the bag.
Have you ever worked at a company that fires 5-10% of their staff annually, and does not pay bonuses in order to make some stupid market demanded performance targets? I have, those companies say that their value is in their people, yet the first chance that management gets to maximize their personal net worth they do and screw the rest of the workers with 100 stock options.
There is no reason in my mind that a large company that pays senior level executives $300k-$500k should have to pay the CEO an annual price tag of $5 million. There is no way that a CEO is doing work that is worth 10 times as much as other senior executives.
That is my bitch, and yes, if you think it is communist to say FUCK OFF as an investor and employee, then I guess I am a commie.
Ok that post was a lot better than the 1st one. I'll agree with you in some instances that CEO's are overpaid based upon your comments above. In general I still think the pay should be significant for CEO as an incentive for success. I also agree that there should be serious financial repercussions for short-term gains that perpetuate long term losses.
I also highly dislike American corporations current outlook on employees as their bottom-line versus a valuable resource, but I believe that discussion would warrant its own thread.
Tossica: No, you're gay because you suck on cocks.
Darcler:
Get rid of the pictures of the goofy looking white guy. That opens two right there.
Mazzletoffarado: That's me fucktard
Darcler:
Get rid of the pictures of the goofy looking white guy. That opens two right there.
Mazzletoffarado: That's me fucktard
Vivalicious wrote:Lots of females don't want you to put your penis in their mouths. Some prefer it in their ass.
I think that they should be paid well. However, when most sign up for this job they get a guarantee of a large payday, and if things go wrong (usually, but not always their fault) they get a HUGE payoff to leave.
Last I heard, a 30 year employee who has busted his or her ass is worth a big payoff. The new CEO that was headhunted from another job being guaranteed a $10 million payoff is a lot harder to support. Yes, they gave up incentives/retirement benefits to leave one job for another, but they also got a guaranteed payday of a few million to lighten the load and reduce any personal risks at the same time.
It is like athletes who get paid huge money for a few years then use lines like "I need the money to take care of my family". Last I heard if you have $3 million or more from one year (after taxes and agent fees) you are ahead of what 99.99% of the human race will make in their lifetimes.
Last I heard, a 30 year employee who has busted his or her ass is worth a big payoff. The new CEO that was headhunted from another job being guaranteed a $10 million payoff is a lot harder to support. Yes, they gave up incentives/retirement benefits to leave one job for another, but they also got a guaranteed payday of a few million to lighten the load and reduce any personal risks at the same time.
It is like athletes who get paid huge money for a few years then use lines like "I need the money to take care of my family". Last I heard if you have $3 million or more from one year (after taxes and agent fees) you are ahead of what 99.99% of the human race will make in their lifetimes.
I like how people bitch about how so and so makes X amount of money.
Sounds like you're a bit jealous...
I have an idea. Instead of getting up in arms and worrying about what Mr. CEO is making per year, why don’t you go channel your energy into making your own millions?
Oh I know why, you’re a lazy sheep who blames his money problems on outside forces instead of looking at him self...
WAAAHHHHH WAAHHHHH he makes 10 mil per year and I don’t!! WAAHHHHHH
Sounds like you're a bit jealous...
I have an idea. Instead of getting up in arms and worrying about what Mr. CEO is making per year, why don’t you go channel your energy into making your own millions?
Oh I know why, you’re a lazy sheep who blames his money problems on outside forces instead of looking at him self...
WAAAHHHHH WAAHHHHH he makes 10 mil per year and I don’t!! WAAHHHHHH
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mappatazee
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Goose_Man wrote:I like how people bitch about how so and so makes X amount of money.
Sounds like you're a bit jealous...
I have an idea. Instead of getting up in arms and worrying about what Mr. CEO is making per year, why don’t you go channel your energy into making your own millions?
Oh I know why, you’re a lazy sheep who blames his money problems on outside forces instead of looking at him self...
WAAAHHHHH WAAHHHHH he makes 10 mil per year and I don’t!! WAAHHHHHH
Yeah thats it. Everyone can be a CEO! We can all make 10 million a year, we just dont want to. Right.