What is the difference between

[Darcler]

You started the shit-slinging.

He actually didnt. He said in his opinion, it wasnt related and that you were just trying to rile people up. Which you were, please admit it.

[Narrock]

You started the shit-slinging.

He actually didnt. He said in his opinion, it wasnt related and that you were just trying to rile people up. Which you were, please admit it.

No, I wasn't trying to "rile" anybody up. I was just stating a fact. This was yet another prime example of Ginzburg starting an unnecessary war in a forum that is supposed to be "troll-free." Obviously, he didn't pay attention to the rules.

[Tikker]

you guys have to learn that it's not possible to reason with mindia when he's in zealot/retard mode




which is 95% of the time

[Ginzburgh]

No, I wasn't trying to "rile" anybody up. I was just stating a fact. This was yet another prime example of Ginzburg starting an unnecessary war in a forum that is supposed to be "troll-free." Obviously, he didn't pay attention to the rules.

I guess I'll just have to take comfort in the fact that I'm not alone in thinking that you suck.

[Narrock]

No, I wasn't trying to "rile" anybody up. I was just stating a fact. This was yet another prime example of Ginzburg starting an unnecessary war in a forum that is supposed to be "troll-free." Obviously, he didn't pay attention to the rules.

I guess I'll just have to take comfort in the fact that I'm not alone in thinking that you suck.

Quite profound.

[Ginzburgh]

Wow an emote, I...didn't see that coming.

[Tikker]

ps


athiest = no god

agnostic = there's a god, but doesn't believe in religion

[Drem]

agnostic means without gnosis. they think there is some driving force but that it is impossible to know what it is

[Gidan]

IMO there is certainly a relationship between religion/non religion and suicide, though I would say it’s not so much that your faith makes you a better person and lowers the chances of suicide. I think that those with faith don’t commit suicide more for selfish reasons; they don’t want to be condemned for doing it. Atheists don’t see any life after death; this being the case death is a way out, for those religious who believe in an afterlife, death is only the next step and generally in the case of suicide, a step to something worse.


Being an Atheist does not make someone a bad person. It does not make you a weak person. It just means you do not believe in God(s).

[Yamori]

Agnostics don't know - some casually through personal disinterest in the matter, or lack of any evidence from either side, or from a more philosophical standing based on the nature of knowledge itself being unable to reach a conclusion on the subject.

If you believe in god without religion, you fall under the deist/pantheist/ect categories, not agnostic.

[Harrison]

An agnostic does not deny the existence of God and heaven but holds that one cannot know for certain whether or not they exist.

[Adivina]

Is there any formal classification for me (besides smart ass remarks like confused and stupid and damned to hell)?

I think that there may be something larger than ourselves out there, but I don't know what it is. Honestly I don't think about life or death or the afterlife, or even religion or faith that much, but if I stop and sit down and think about it I'd like to feel that there is something more but I just don't really know what I think. It doesn't bother me or plague me daily, I just don't really think of it. However, I find many experiences in life to be beautiful, spiritual things. Am I just a really confused agnostic?

[Narrock]

Is there any formal classification for me (besides smart ass remarks like confused and stupid and damned to hell)?

I think that there may be something larger than ourselves out there, but I don't know what it is. Honestly I don't think about life or death or the afterlife, or even religion or faith that much, but if I stop and sit down and think about it I'd like to feel that there is something more but I just don't really know what I think. It doesn't bother me or plague me daily, I just don't really think of it. However, I find many experiences in life to be beautiful, spiritual things. Am I just a really confused agnostic?

I'll bet a lot of people think the same as you Adi.

[Adivina]

That makes me feel a little better.

I really do admire people who have unyielding faith, that kind of devotion amazes me, but as for myself, unless I purposely bring it up in my mind, I just go through life without really thinking much about the whole matter on either side, existance or not. When I sit and think of it I know I would like to think there is something, but I just don't know what.

Edit - fixed a word

[Jay]

Is there any formal classification for me (besides smart ass remarks like confused and stupid and damned to hell)?

I think that there may be something larger than ourselves out there, but I don't know what it is. Honestly I don't think about life or death or the afterlife, or even religion or faith that much, but if I stop and sit down and think about it I'd like to feel that there is something more but I just don't really know what I think. It doesn't bother me or plague me daily, I just don't really think of it. However, I find many experiences in life to be beautiful, spiritual things. Am I just a really confused agnostic?

That sounds like Christian Gnostic.

[Gidan]

The only thing I know is that their is a greater intelligence then human kind in the universe. I beleive there is intelligence out there that is so advanced they would be considered gods to human kind. I also do not doubt for a moment that their are forms of intelligent life that are capable of creating life on a planet. I dont know if we would ever meet any of these other forms of intelligence or if we would even recognise them if we did. I guess you could call it faith. Faith in a greater power, a greater intelligance, science and reason or whatever you wish to call it.

[Tuggan]

i think it would be sweet to turn off all common sense and believe in a god.

[Tikker]

I looked it up, since there's some confusion:

Agnosticism is the philosophical view that the truth values of certain claims, particularly theological claims regarding the existence of God, gods or deities, are either unknown or inherently unknowable. The term and the related agnostic were coined by Thomas Henry Huxley in 1869 and are also used to describe those who are unconvinced or noncommittal about the existence of deities as well as other matters of religion.

ultimate fence sitter

[Trielelvan]

ultimate fence sitter

A Christian once said to me that I should believe in Jesus Christ as my lord and saviour. When I asked "why," he responded, "Why not? It couldn't hurt and can only do you good. Jesus is the way to salvation of the soul. It's not much to ask for you to just believe in order to save your soul since he sacrificed himself to give you heaven."

An Atheist once said to me that he believed religion to be for fools who don't want to think for themselves and can't handle reality. When I asked "why," he repsonded, "There is no 'God' or higher power. There are no dieties watching us from on high. We make our own destinies - nothing else controls that. When we die, we are 'bug food' and that's it. End of story. If you believe otherwise, then you are a fool."

So, what have we learned?

1. To state belief, any belief, blindly without faith is a lie in and of itself.
2. You can not force yourself, or anyone else, to believe in something that you do not believe in.
3. Once you believe you have all the answers, it's likely you will learn very little else since you already know everything.

Agnostics, true agnostics, are not "fence sitters." They have chosen a stance. They sincerely believe that no one has all the answers with regards to religion. They sincerely believe that NO ONE can possibly know what is and isn't, and that it is foolhardy, not to mention egotistical, to assume that we have any real answers whatsoever regarding the existance of any higher powers and what their intentions are.
A true agnostic is an eternal unbiased student of life and the world, especially where religion is concerned.

[The Kizzy]

I know plenty of atheists and agnostics who are strong, normal individuals. I also know many religious people with drug and alcohol problems.

So no, in my opinion they are not related. Just Mindia taking a jab at people that don't fall into his category.

Does your stupidity have a ceiling?

Here again, Mindia, is proof. Ginz called you out on something to which you responded in a harsh manner. I know you won't agree, but I do know that you see it. YOu are just to proud to admit when you are wrong.

[Adivina]

I wouldn't say Christian Gnostic, because I think there is something out there, but I don't know what, and I am more bound to find god and beauty everywhere in nature, which is more of a Eastern view on things. I don't know if I think there is one god, or many gods. Perhaps I am just a very confused Agnostic?

[Evermore]

an atheist and an agnostic?

about $50

[Narrock]

I know plenty of atheists and agnostics who are strong, normal individuals. I also know many religious people with drug and alcohol problems.

So no, in my opinion they are not related. Just Mindia taking a jab at people that don't fall into his category.

Does your stupidity have a ceiling?

Here again, Mindia, is proof. Ginz called you out on something to which you responded in a harsh manner. I know you won't agree, but I do know that you see it. YOu are just to proud to admit when you are wrong.

/sigh

Ginz didn't call me out. He accused me of "taking a jab at people that don't fall into his category," which is not true. That's why I reacted harshly. Now, you're re-opening a potential thread-ruining argument. Leave it be.

[The Kizzy]

Why is it that 385,234 people could tell you that you are wrong, but you refuse to admit it. You made an assumption and generalization that all people without God commit suicide, he disagreed with you, you called him stupid in true Mindia fashion. THen you say he is the one picking the fight and refusing to admit you were wrong by calling him stupid. THis is not a fight, it is a debate, which are more than allowed, so please don't run and hide behind that one when you are the one who started it.

[KaiineTN]

I think most people, at some point in their lives, have at least considered suicide. Having religious faith is just one thing that has the potential to stop a person from going through with it, but I do agree that it is for selfish reasons (believing that you will be condemned if you do). There are definitely better reasons to not kill yourself, whatever they may be. But regardless, implying that one member of your family has all these problems because he isn't religious isn't very... well, it just makes it seem like you're jumping to the conclusion which satisfies you the most and reinforces your beliefs.

Think about it more deeply and analyze things. Do you know what brought about his behavior? What about his experiences growing up? His parents, his friends, his enemies? Was he even introduced to religions? Maybe he was socially isolated and depressed because of it, and turned to drug use as a way to connect with people. Who knows? Can we really know?

Have you ever talked to him about his problems? If that isolation suggestion was true, could religion have helped him? A church could have provided a social setting and a way to connect with people which could have had the potential to stop bad habits which led to suicide attempts from forming, but that has absolutely nothing to do with faith and everything to do with people. What if his very depression was brought on by the pressure to conform to religious beliefs that didn't feel right to him in his heart? What if religion itself CAUSED it? It wouldn't be the first time.

Of course, this is all speculation on my part. If you know more, then, by all means, share the whole story with us.

Anyways, I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that maybe he just needed to feel like he belonged somewhere, to feel like part of a group and to have friends and people to go to for support. From my experiences with depressed people, that seems to be what a lot of them need more than anything else. A church could provide those things, the people there can, but religion and faith don't. And there are many other places to get those things besides a church.

"God himself, sir, does not propose to judge man until the end of his days."

Why do you?