From the Victory Baptist Church in Maryland:
http://www.victorybaptistmd.org/tracts/ ... est-1.html
The Atheist Test
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The Atheist Test
Last edited by Phlegm on Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I fucking hate people sometimes. I want out of this fucking state. I fucking hate living in the bible belt... I swear to baby Jesus and holy Muhammad that I hear this type of logic on a weekly basis.
Gaazy wrote:Now vonk on the other hand, is one of the most self absorbed know it alls in my memory of this site. Ive always thought so, and I still cant understand why in gods name he is here
Such mind blowing arguments there. I now know 100% that there is a god because of that webiste..............
Last edited by Xaiveir on Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Why fight it, i am a Man Whore!
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kinghooter00
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I like how they completely fail to mention the fact that the Banana looks designed because it is: It's a carefully cultivated crop by humans that bears almost no resemblance to it's wild varieties. Indeed, the vast majority of bananas sold for consumption are of a single type, the Cavendish, *ALL* of which are clones of one particular variety that was found to be the best tasting variant that was resistant to a plant disease that wiped out the previous banana staple, the Gros Michel.
WILD bananas look incredibly different, and are actually packed with large inedible seeds. To demonstrate, here's a picture of a ripe wild banana, cut open:
So sure, the banana you can buy in a supermarket bears evidence of intelligent design, because it was designed. By humans. Indeed, almost none of the plant foods we eat today at all resemble their original wild cousins, any more than a Chihuahua resembles the wolf that humans bred it's ancestors from. Next fallacy, please.
-Arlos
WILD bananas look incredibly different, and are actually packed with large inedible seeds. To demonstrate, here's a picture of a ripe wild banana, cut open:
So sure, the banana you can buy in a supermarket bears evidence of intelligent design, because it was designed. By humans. Indeed, almost none of the plant foods we eat today at all resemble their original wild cousins, any more than a Chihuahua resembles the wolf that humans bred it's ancestors from. Next fallacy, please.
-Arlos
Seriously Arlos, not to argue banana theory or some such nonsense because frankly I simply find the assertions that it supports creationism or debunks evolution theory humorous, but a cultivated plant raised as a crop doesn't make it designed by man, the specific type you are referring to is found in nature is it not?
I'm sure selective breeding and cultivation are used to produce better bananas in that they are more resistant to disease and pests, grow faster, produce more fruit ect but I really think it's quite a leap to assert that the core design of the common grocery store banana was that of man and not of nature.
Not being an expert in banana farming/cultivation and reproduction I was under the impression there were seeds in the fruit... which would point to an adaptation using animals to spread the seeds, I of course found this not to be the case, so I suppose your argument is better... but seriously I think you lend more credibility then is due even arguing the point.
I'm sure selective breeding and cultivation are used to produce better bananas in that they are more resistant to disease and pests, grow faster, produce more fruit ect but I really think it's quite a leap to assert that the core design of the common grocery store banana was that of man and not of nature.
Not being an expert in banana farming/cultivation and reproduction I was under the impression there were seeds in the fruit... which would point to an adaptation using animals to spread the seeds, I of course found this not to be the case, so I suppose your argument is better... but seriously I think you lend more credibility then is due even arguing the point.
Raymond S. Kraft wrote:The history of the world is the history of civilizational clashes, cultural clashes. All wars are about ideas, ideas about what society and civilization should be like, and the most determined always win.
Those who are willing to be the most ruthless always win. The pacifists always lose, because the anti-pacifists kill them.
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Trielelvan
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That would be incorrect Mindia. Arlos is correct - the present day banana we eat is a far cry from it's original ancestor, and man is the reason why we have a "table" banana that is sweet and succulent.
It doesn't take "technology" as we know it present day to cultivate crops. We have, in fact, been cultivating plants for more favorable properties for over a thousand years.
Another good example is the present day carrot. In it's original form, carrots are all derived from a plant with a long skinny black, white, yellow, red, or purple root that was acrid and bitter. It was a weed, and was later used in medicine.
It was a long time before man finally cultivated the current day bright orange super sweet vegetable we all know and love.
It doesn't take "technology" as we know it present day to cultivate crops. We have, in fact, been cultivating plants for more favorable properties for over a thousand years.
Another good example is the present day carrot. In it's original form, carrots are all derived from a plant with a long skinny black, white, yellow, red, or purple root that was acrid and bitter. It was a weed, and was later used in medicine.
It was a long time before man finally cultivated the current day bright orange super sweet vegetable we all know and love.
HyPhY GhEtTo MaMi wrote:GeT ofF mAh OvaRiEz
Corn is another example of a highly modified plant. Modern sweet corn is *VERY* different than the wild Maize that used to grow in the americas, or even the maize that was cultivated by the indians. Wheat is also another highly modified plant compared to the original stock plant, which was, if I remember right, called Einchorn.
Genetic modification with plants is very very easy, and doesn't even require much science; people have been doing it for hundreds and thousands of years. Remember, you can clone many plants by taking a cutting from the plant and getting a new plant to grow from that cutting. Basically, you create new strains of plants the same way that new strains of dogs were created: You find a parent that has some of the traits you want, breed it with another parent that has other traits you want, and see what offspring are produced. Hopefully, at least one of those offspring hits the genetic lottery and is closer to what you want to produce, in which case you keep it, and re-breed it with ones like it's parents, to get it even further along, etc. Those that don't come out like you want, you kill off. Hell, Mendel used such methods to prove genetic inheritance back in the 1820s with his peas.
That's how we went from wild dogs and wolves to the various dog breeds we see today, human-chosen selective breeding. Same way with most of the foods we eat as well. (Domestic Cows, for example, are VERY different than the stock they came from, a species called Aurochs, which went extinct during the middle ages). Bananas are just one other such example. The modern strain of Bananas wasn't even mass-grown until the mid-60s, and then only because a virulent root disease wiped out the world's supply of the previous type of banana that had been developed. Supposedly, the modern banana strain tastes way worse than the old strain, too. Notice that the bananas we eat today are basically seedless, and as such would be useless for reproducing the plant; that's an engineered trait, the same as with seedless Grapes.
Right now, a version of that same root disease has developed that kills the modern banana strain too, and has spread throughout much of the far east. So far it hasn't reached the Americas yet, but when it does, (and it's only a matter of time), either we give up bananas, or they have to come up with a new strain yet again. That's actually something companies like Dole, etc are working on hardcore, to make a new banana strain that resists the new root disease, yet still tastes good, has good texture, etc. So far, they don't have one.
-Arlos
Genetic modification with plants is very very easy, and doesn't even require much science; people have been doing it for hundreds and thousands of years. Remember, you can clone many plants by taking a cutting from the plant and getting a new plant to grow from that cutting. Basically, you create new strains of plants the same way that new strains of dogs were created: You find a parent that has some of the traits you want, breed it with another parent that has other traits you want, and see what offspring are produced. Hopefully, at least one of those offspring hits the genetic lottery and is closer to what you want to produce, in which case you keep it, and re-breed it with ones like it's parents, to get it even further along, etc. Those that don't come out like you want, you kill off. Hell, Mendel used such methods to prove genetic inheritance back in the 1820s with his peas.
That's how we went from wild dogs and wolves to the various dog breeds we see today, human-chosen selective breeding. Same way with most of the foods we eat as well. (Domestic Cows, for example, are VERY different than the stock they came from, a species called Aurochs, which went extinct during the middle ages). Bananas are just one other such example. The modern strain of Bananas wasn't even mass-grown until the mid-60s, and then only because a virulent root disease wiped out the world's supply of the previous type of banana that had been developed. Supposedly, the modern banana strain tastes way worse than the old strain, too. Notice that the bananas we eat today are basically seedless, and as such would be useless for reproducing the plant; that's an engineered trait, the same as with seedless Grapes.
Right now, a version of that same root disease has developed that kills the modern banana strain too, and has spread throughout much of the far east. So far it hasn't reached the Americas yet, but when it does, (and it's only a matter of time), either we give up bananas, or they have to come up with a new strain yet again. That's actually something companies like Dole, etc are working on hardcore, to make a new banana strain that resists the new root disease, yet still tastes good, has good texture, etc. So far, they don't have one.
-Arlos
Lueyen wrote:
I'm sure selective breeding and cultivation are used to produce better bananas in that they are more resistant to disease and pests, grow faster, produce more fruit ect but I really think it's quite a leap to assert that the core design of the common grocery store banana was that of man and not of nature.
strawberries are another good example of a crop that's been culled to produce bigger, more resistant berries. Wild strawberries are very differnt in shape and taste from the ones you find in the stores.
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