The Bible and the errors within - A (long) religious post.

[vonkaar]

Muglack - The teachings of the honorable Elijah MoGoatah allows for hating or loving the goat. You are well within the bounds of my goatma. Dogma? Get it? It's an animal too? Latin, shmlatin.

Kalec - Come on UT2k4 tonight. Nothing allows for brotherhood bonding like times of war... and gay anus sex.

[brinstar]

Oh btw, I've named myself your equal, and only through me can any of those who follow me contact you.

ya that and his PM box :roll:

all-singing all-dancing crap of the world

[Narrock]

Vonk, although eloquently written (save for the self-Godly references) I will research your claims and statements and get back to you. After all... you wouldn't make the claim that you've just posted historical fact without accepting the possibility that the sources you used for your information-gathering are also based on opinion, and have also been interpreted and translated by many many people over hundreds and hundreds of years right?
Anyway, nice post. We'll talk soon.

Research != link this to your little bitch minister for help...

I probably have access to the same 'factual history' books that he/she/it owns. If you have to actually 'research' a comeback to a post that basically says, "Faith is all you need... love God, love your neighbor and love yourself" then you are more than a little pathetic. If we assume that I made up 99% of that, would my point be any different? Stop trying to condemn other people. Stop trying to make yourself seem better than others. Stop attempting to "prove" Christianity to people. Your own religion frowns on all of the above. Your own religion teaches 'love' above all else. What you have posted in these forums sets the worst possible example of Christianity. Ask yourself if you think that a non-member would possibly be interested in Christianity by reading your anti-everyone threads. The point of my post was NOT to give a history lesson (although it was fun), it was to talk about all the *wrong* things that you and your quasi-Christian brethren have been doing.

You are wrong... in so many ways. Do all the research you need to try and prove me wrong. The best that you can do is whimper away with a, "we are all sinners... blahblah we all judge." That's not a comeback, that's a cop-out. Justify your actions to be in within the teachings of Christ, or shut the fuck up.

I don't need to link this to my pastor. I'm sure that you in your 25 years of infinite wisdom, knowledge, and education surpasses that of a Pastor with a PhD, Master's Degree, 2 Bachelor's Degrees, and who has written about 20 books. You conceited, arrogant little prick (oops I sinned). Everything you have so eloquently posted and tried to pass off as a "history lesson" can be found on a google search. /Cong on your l33t search engine skills.

I'm now going to comment and respond to your philosophies. When you respond back to this post, I don't want to read any of your commentary on my debating skills, your perception of my comprehension skills, or any other non-related issue, throwing a tantrum out of "frustration" and refusing to comment any further. Stop being such a pussy.

I'm not going to say that religiously-speaking, it's "my way or the highway." I am, however, going to comment again on my beliefs and how they differ from others' beliefs. First of all, I understand that the Bible was written, and translated, by several dozen people over a couple hundred years. Can we get past that point yet? Thanks, drive thru.

Now let's assume something for a moment... Let's assume I believe that what was written in the Bible (as we know it today) was untampered with, true to God's word, and accurate. Now let's also assume that Catholics, Protestants, 7th-Day Adventists, Mormons, JW's, etc. also believe that the Bible was untampered with, true to God's word, and accurate. Now based on those assumptions how am I not being a Christian when I merely point out some very important things some of them are doing that goes against what the Bible says when we all believe in the same Bible? Oh, sure... you can play the "interpretation" card at this point, and I can buy that. But let me assure you... that my KJV Bible is the same as the KJV Bible you'll find in a Catholic Church, Lutheran Church, and a 7th-Day Adventist Church.

The mormons wrote the "Book of Mormon" which they hold equal to the Bible. I'm not going to say anything else about them after this. IN MY OPINION, and based on my FAITH, and based on what it says in SCRIPTURE THAT WE ALL BELIEVE TO BE TRUE, I believe the mormon church is misleading and brainwashing their members. Same goes for the Catholic church, but I'm tired of repeating myself with scripture that validates my claims, so I'll just leave it at that. If it makes you feel any better I will admit now that I was being somewhat judgmental. Do you feel all warm and fuzzy inside now?

Jesus said to not be concerned about a speck in someone else's eye when you yourself have a plank in your own eye. Did I violate that lesson with my opinion and commentary on the Catholics and Mormons? Apparently you seem to think so. Why is it ok and so important for you (Vonkaar) that I acknowledge I'm breaking Jesus' teachings (and sinning)by being judgmental and pointing out Scripture, which goes against what the Catholic and Mormon church teaches, but it's ok for you to turn around and be judgmental towards me? Where's the real hypocracy now?

Maybe you are right about one thing... that I shouldn't be concerned with others' beliefs and voice my opinions about them. But I am concerned when I see good people being misled and brainwashed by a fanatical cult. This is part of my outreach Ministry. What kind of Christian would I be to just sit back and do nothing as the sheep are being led off to the slaughter... when I had an opportunity to point things out to them and try to de-program them before it's too late? See, I'm not just saying "HAW YOU'VE GOT IT ALL WRONG YOU SCUMSUCKERS." I'm showing them where there is a problem, based on Scripture in which we all believe, and then offering a solution.

You try to pass yourself off as this high and mighty all-knowledgable Biblical guru and then chastise Christians like myself who have the balls enough to stand up to misleading cults and point out their shortcomings. And all you can say is... "WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TO POINT OUT ANYBODY'S SHORTCOMINGS?!!!" or whatever other rubbish you can muster up. You've got to do better than that. I will continue to be opinionated, and I will continue to fight for what I think is right, and to try to help people. If you don't like it that's your problem. I know I have a good heart and I know, without a doubt, that I'm a very good Christian and an honorable soldier for God.

[Tossica]

As usual Mindia, you are missing the big picture. The single most important message is "love the neighbor". That's it. It's that simple. If you argue with Vonkaar at this point, it's beyond pathetic. There really is no argument.

I know that you really think you have it all figured out now but sadly, you don't. At some point in your life you will hopefully understand what is being said to you over and over again.

I can probably compare the comfort and well being I feel knowing that I am enjoying the only life I will ever have and being at peace with my miniscule role in the universe to the feeling you get from going to church and looking forward to what is coming in the afterlife.

Don't spend your lifetime hating man. Honestly, try to look at every human being as just that, a fellow human being. Don't worry yourself about what they are doing, just concentrate on how you are. It's the main message in just about every major religion on the planet and is the only way we will ever survive as a species.

Notice, I did not call you a name anywhere in this post.

[Muglack]

I know I have a good heart and I know, without a doubt, that I'm a very good Christian and an honorable soldier for God.

Osama bin Laden is a very good muslim and an incredible soldier for his God, so what are you trying to say?

[Tacks]

I don't need to link this to my pastor. I'm sure that you in your 25 years of infinite wisdom, knowledge, and education surpasses that of a Pastor with a PhD, Master's Degree, 2 Bachelor's Degrees, and who has written about 20 books. You conceited, arrogant little prick (oops I sinned). Everything you have so eloquently posted and tried to pass off as a "history lesson" can be found on a google search. /Cong on your l33t search engine skills.

I'm now going to comment and respond to your philosophies. When you respond back to this post, I don't want to read any of your commentary on my debating skills, your perception of my comprehension skills, or any other non-related issue, throwing a tantrum out of "frustration" and refusing to comment any further. Stop being such a pussy.

I'm not going to say that religiously-speaking, it's "my way or the highway." I am, however, going to comment again on my beliefs and how they differ from others' beliefs. First of all, I understand that the Bible was written, and translated, by several dozen people over a couple hundred years. Can we get past that point yet? Thanks, drive thru.

Now let's assume something for a moment... Let's assume I believe that what was written in the Bible (as we know it today) was untampered with, true to God's word, and accurate. Now let's also assume that Catholics, Protestants, 7th-Day Adventists, Mormons, JW's, etc. also believe that the Bible was untampered with, true to God's word, and accurate. Now based on those assumptions how am I not being a Christian when I merely point out some very important things some of them are doing that goes against what the Bible says when we all believe in the same Bible? Oh, sure... you can play the "interpretation" card at this point, and I can buy that. But let me assure you... that my KJV Bible is the same as the KJV Bible you'll find in a Catholic Church, Lutheran Church, and a 7th-Day Adventist Church.

The mormons wrote the "Book of Mormon" which they hold equal to the Bible. I'm not going to say anything else about them after this. IN MY OPINION, and based on my FAITH, and based on what it says in SCRIPTURE THAT WE ALL BELIEVE TO BE TRUE, I believe the mormon church is misleading and brainwashing their members. Same goes for the Catholic church, but I'm tired of repeating myself with scripture that validates my claims, so I'll just leave it at that. If it makes you feel any better I will admit now that I was being somewhat judgmental. Do you feel all warm and fuzzy inside now?

Jesus said to not be concerned about a speck in someone else's eye when you yourself have a plank in your own eye. Did I violate that lesson with my opinion and commentary on the Catholics and Mormons? Apparently you seem to think so. Why is it ok and so important for you (Vonkaar) that I acknowledge I'm breaking Jesus' teachings (and sinning)by being judgmental and pointing out Scripture, which goes against what the Catholic and Mormon church teaches, but it's ok for you to turn around and be judgmental towards me? Where's the real hypocracy now?

Maybe you are right about one thing... that I shouldn't be concerned with others' beliefs and voice my opinions about them. But I am concerned when I see good people being misled and brainwashed by a fanatical cult. This is part of my outreach Ministry. What kind of Christian would I be to just sit back and do nothing as the sheep are being led off to the slaughter... when I had an opportunity to point things out to them and try to de-program them before it's too late? See, I'm not just saying "HAW YOU'VE GOT IT ALL WRONG YOU SCUMSUCKERS." I'm showing them where there is a problem, based on Scripture in which we all believe, and then offering a solution.

You try to pass yourself off as this high and mighty all-knowledgable Biblical guru and then chastise Christians like myself who have the balls enough to stand up to misleading cults and point out their shortcomings. And all you can say is... "WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TO POINT OUT ANYBODY'S SHORTCOMINGS?!!!" or whatever other rubbish you can muster up. You've got to do better than that. I will continue to be opinionated, and I will continue to fight for what I think is right, and to try to help people. If you don't like it that's your problem. I know I have a good heart and I know, without a doubt, that I'm a very good Christian and an honorable soldier for God.

SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU STUPID MOTHERFUCKER, NOBODY AGREES WITH YOU, YOU HIPPY

[Muglack]

Sometimes I wish Mindia was a Muslim. If he had been born on the other side of the world, he would of blown himself up a long LONG time ago, and we wouldn't need to read his posts. He's worse then EPSILON_ and for those of you out there who know who I'm talking about, that says a lot.

[KaiineTN]

I bet your pastor would have more of an open mind than you, Mindia. I had a lot of experience with people like Mindia when I was trying out the Excel business, and frankly, they're all stupid fucks. Seriously.

They all hide behind a false curtain of 'helping people' when in reality they are using them to get ahead. Sure, you don't succeed if they don't, so you need to help them, but it doesn't go both ways, only you really profit from it because they don't earn off of your work while you do from theirs.

Now, the reason I brought that up, is simply because most Christians seem to find it incredibly important to "solicit" their religion much in the same way a pyramid scheme like Excel works, which would explain why it is almost 100 percent Christian btw. They believe that people need to "find Christ," and I swear to Go... Vonkaar that I'm going to end up assaulting one of these fags that come on my property.

There is NO GREATER way to show a lack of respect (or "love," I suppose) for a fellow man than to wave your beliefs in his face and in the process challenging his own... And you're so blind you don't even realize it. You think you're trying to help him... and all you people are really doing is giving your religion a bad name and pissing me off in the process.

Now, if I were to sit down with Christians and have an open religious debate, that would be a different story.

I may as well throw this in, as for my own beliefs, well, I suppose you could say I'm pretty "innocent" when it comes to religions. I know nothing about the Bible, scriptures, Jesus, or any of that bullshit. This gives me a VERY open mind and a VERY different perspective on everything being said than most people here. Frankly, I don't give a fuck about the Bible, Jesus, or any other of that shit.

I do care about how people treat each other, and I consider respect to be the most important thing a person can give, have, or earn. Think of it this way... you can't love someone if you don't respect them, and the same goes for them loving you.

Now, apparantly from what I read (new to me) Jesus was all about loving other people, if he really had love, he definitely had respect for every person AND their opinions. I doubt Jesus was walking door to door soliciting religious beliefs, if so, then all his followers were ignorant idiots with no sense of being independant and having their own beliefs, which is then what the entire Christian population would be based on... Well, damn, that would explain you, Mindia.

Well Mindia, cong, you've found Christ. Cong on being one of the close minded idiots that cause so much violence in our world. You ARE the Christian equivalent to a Muslim suicide bomber... Soldier of God my ass.

I wouldn't be surprised if you snapped and pulled a "Fell" and threatened to come kill us for backing you into a corner that you know the only way out of is to admit your beliefs are that of an extremist.

Anyways, yeah, this is 3 AM ramblings, so don't listen to me.

[Muglack]

We won't.

[KaiineTN]

Well, damn Mug, I was actually going with your Muslim bomber idea! ;p

[Muglack]

Noone's posting and I'm not tired. I really need to get a hobby, it started to hurt last time I jerked off, and I don't want to give it another go. Btw, I noticed you went along with the suicide bomber idea, but that was plain as day to anyone that's ever read a Mindia post. I'm suprised he hasn't gone to Northern Ireland yet, and declared his allegiance to one side or the other, just so he can actually be a Soldier of God.

[Witty]

Honestly, try to look at every human being as just that, a fellow human being.

I can see how that could get a little difficult on this board...

[Muglack]

KILL THE GOAT LOVER!!!!!

[Witty]

gah, no edit? Guess I'll have to learn how to use the preview button.

[Muglack]

You might have to... GOATLOVER!

[Jirig]

Now let's assume something for a moment... Let's assume I believe that what was written in the Bible (as we know it today) was untampered with, true to God's word, and accurate. Now let's also assume that Catholics, Protestants, 7th-Day Adventists, Mormons, JW's, etc. also believe that the Bible was untampered with, true to God's word, and accurate. Now based on those assumptions how am I not being a Christian when I merely point out some very important things some of them are doing that goes against what the Bible says when we all believe in the same Bible? Oh, sure... you can play the "interpretation" card at this point, and I can buy that. But let me assure you... that my KJV Bible is the same as the KJV Bible you'll find in a Catholic Church, Lutheran Church, and a 7th-Day Adventist Church.

First off, if we "assume" all of those creeds you mentioned accept the bible as "true to God's word" and accurate, there wouldn't be all of those creeds, Mindia. The sole reason there are so many denominations in the world today is because each doctrine interprets the Bible differently. Ergo, your argument is dubious at best.

... and lastly, you're not a bad christian because you point this stuff out. You're a bad christian because of shit like this:

Stop being such a pussy.

Quit trying to convert us, please.

Thanks, drive thru.

[Witty]

I think I liked Reev's robot religion better.... fucking robot!

[ValanthaStormweaver]

Valantha I'm so surprised you don't attend church anymore...oh that's right you're a crack-whore and that's kinda frowned upon.

Taxx, where exactly does your hatred for me come from? Give it up already.

"I" stopped going to church because after being forced into the Southern Baptist Religion by my stepdad, I realized a few things about my faith. Also, a few things started to bug me about the baptist church. When I asked questions, they got ignored because no one knew the answers, or because they did and realized that it didn't agree with their "religion".

For example: My old church took offerings once a month for missionary work in other countries. The pastor would say the reason for missionary work was to let other people know about God. Well, Baptist's believe that if you do not accept Christ into your heart, believe he died on the cross for your sins, and be baptized to wash away those sins, you go to hell, right? So what about all the people who died before anyone was ever there to tell them? Do they go to hell because they had no clue? I don't think they did. That's why "I" believe in purgatory. I don't expect everyone else to believe that. I don't push it on people. It's just something that I believe personally, something that I have "faith" in. Knowing that those poor souls who were never told about God have a chance and don't burn in hell.

Another reason I stopped going is because the pastor was a hypocritical asshole. I finally drew the line and got up and walked out one morning when he walked down from the pulpit and informed a teenage boy in the back row that he would have to remove his hat or leave. (The boy had just been in a car accident a few months before and they had to do some brain surgery to releave some internal bleeding. His head was covered in scares and he still had stitches and didn't want the whole concregation to see it.)

And no, those aren't the only reasons I don't go to church and I don't like organized religion, but if I listed them all, I could go on forever.

[Spacewoman Spiff]

Aw, don't feel bad Val.

Taxx just hates whores. That's what you are. I wouldn't feel bad about it.

[Thon]

Mindia, you didn't even try and refute anything vonkaar pointed out while thrashing the bible

his whole point was how much change the bible has gone through, and you simply ignored everything he pointed out.

then while blindly following your faith you had the nerve to say mormons are brainwashed and mislead.

did you suffer a closed head injury as a child?

[vonkaar]

Quote #1
Mindia, you didn't even try and refute anything vonkaar pointed out while thrashing the bible

Quote #2
my KJV Bible is the same as the KJV Bible you'll find in a Catholic Church

Oh Lord... is it the same KJV you'll find in a Muslim temple? Idiot.

Quote #3
it's ok for you to turn around and be judgmental towards me? Where's the real hypocracy now?

"hypocrisy"

Now, let's go back to debate101, as taught by the esteemed Ezeekial. In a modern debate (modern being defined by any form of polemics practiced since the time of Plato) you are 'supposed' to have two or more sides. We'll call these the 'for' and 'against' sides. Each side is allowed to take a stance for one topic or another and the quarrelling can begin. Points are made, subjects are kicked around... but most important, declarations... or 'proofs' are determined.

In *this* debate, we'll call ME 'against' the pseudo-Christians of NT. Mindia is the leader of this movement (all captains, no soldiers?). One 'proof' that has been made *quite* clear is Mindia's poor grasp of logic, although he asked me to not mention it this time. Another 'proof' that we've stumbled upon is his strong grasp of Biblical history. (See quote #2). The most important fundamental is his claim to follow Christ's teachings. This is a *fun* point to argue because by taking that stance, he's locked into a whole bunch of archaic rules and guidelines.

I've made NO such claims. Ergo, I'm not locked into those rules. I can JUDGE you! I get to have pre-marital intercourse! I get to probe you for any kind of peccadillo ^_^. Mindia is going to hell, hell hell, hell hell hell, hell heeeelllllllll he's going to hellllllll! Yeah! Go me! Doo dee doo dee doooooooo! I tip toe tap dance around your little moral rules! Yay!

You see, I've never taken the stance that judging is wrong. That *would* be hypocritical of me. I'm merely pointing out that YOUR rules forbid you from doing what you are doing. That makes you a SINNER! It also makes you an impotent debater and therefore, a bore.

Quote #4
If 99% of your posts on a message board are based on religion, they shouldn't consist of hatred towards another person. They should consist ENTIRELY of why YOU love YOUR religion. Stop trying to poke holes in a religion that just might bring as much JOY to its members as your religion brings to you. Doing anything short of that is judging. It is sinning. It is misrepresenting your church. It is misrepresenting your God. It is un-Christlike.

It is WRONG.

That is how I feel about the few REAL Christians I've met. Their outlook is simple: they love Christ. Nothing else matters. They could be Baptist, Catholic, Methodist or Mormon. It doesn't matter, they love Christ. Nothing else matters.

More tippee tappee dancing... tra la la lah lahhh... can't argue that, can you?

Now, for the whole "don't make fun of my weak argumentative style" posture... I don't have to...

More quotes ^_^

Quote #5
As usual Mindia, you are missing the big picture. The single most important message is "love the neighbor". That's it. It's that simple. If you argue with Vonkaar at this point, it's beyond pathetic. There really is no argument.

Quote #6
SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU STUPID MOTHERFUCKER, NOBODY AGREES WITH YOU, YOU HIPPY

Quote #7
I had a lot of experience with people like Mindia when I was trying out the Excel business, and frankly, they're all stupid fucks. Seriously.

Quote #8
You're a bad christian

Quote #9
did you suffer a closed head injury as a child?

And... the final quote, which may inspire you in times of darkness:

Quote #10
"If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you."

The only problem with this little bit of nirvana is that we don't hate you because you are a Christian... people hate you because you are an idiot. It would be *so* much easier to stand proud throughout this 'storm' of adversity if we were all poking fun at you for being a Christian. Unfortunately, everybody here is simply making fun of your ignorance.

Too bad God didn't say, "If you were smart, the world would love you: but you are stupid. I have chosen you to be stupid and therefore the world hateth you."

That would *so* apply .

[DangerPaul]

Aw, don't feel bad Val.

Taxx just hates whores. That's what you are. I wouldn't feel bad about it.

priceless

[Narrock]

It has been said that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. How true, how true. The seed has been planted...

[Tossica]

It has been said that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. How true, how true. The seed has been planted...

In other words:

"I am thoroughly and utterly owned and have nothing else to say"

[Zanathar]

I would agree with that assessment Tossica.